To not understand the benefit system . What is going on ?

[Westnsouthnabout]

I have got totally out of touch with the benefits system.. used to work in public services so did used to be in direct contact with a variety of social issues.
Am aware that sudden breakages like washing machines to be paid for, delays in initial payment and sanctioning can mean a sudden and catastrophic change in cash flow.
However, I have been reading that food banks are utterly stretched and in crisis.
I do understand that many people end up in emeegency sitiations, however, have also been reading that some are actually reliant on regular food banks . Sort of like a weekly shop..
I totally accept that I am out of touch with current situations and would like to kmow( seperate to current rising cost of living etc which i know about) .. what is going on re why so many people are relying on them as a regular source of food when they are in reciept of a regular and mostly preductable income( apart from sanctions etc as i said) in the form of benefits.
I am aware I am ignorant amd want to understand more and perhaps contribute.

[quote julieca]@MatildaIThink you have obviously never been poor. Your lack of understanding shows.
Being poor long term is tough. People treat you like crap. You are likely to have a low paid job where at the bottom of the pile people look down in you and treat you like crap. You likely live in an area that is not so great with high crime and anti-social behaviour.
All of this creates a lot of everyday stress. You cant afford to go on spa days, or have massages and holidays to destress regularly. Instead many people drink or smoke.

But also middle-class people drink more alcohol than poorer people. And are more likely to take cocaine and other illegal drugs to destress.[/quote]
It would depend on how you class poor I guess. I've been I situations where I worked 60+ hours a week in minimum wage jobs to make the budget balance, or studied full time and worked 6-8 hour evening shifts 5-6 days a week to balance the budget. Had people treated me like crap when working in bars, restaurants and supermarkets.

Now I am comfortably off, but I have never been on a spa day, never had a massage for relaxation (had massage as part of physio, which is anything but relaxing), I don't smoke, I drink little and don't take prescription or illegal drugs. Sure in my student days I used to drink a bit more, but everyone does at that age.

Also I did point out that middle class people drink more in terms of cost, though mostly less in units, but key is less as a percentage of disposable income and also they don't spend money on alcohol to the detriment of key expenditure. Middle class people are more likely to consume cocaine, they are also far more likely to be able to afford that from within their budget, hence whilst it representing a legal issue it is rarely a financial issue.

So I have been in a situation where I had no spare money, where I had to work a lot of hours to balance the budget, where I ate cereal and beans on toast because I couldn't afford anything more, I also accept that I am comfortably off now. However my husband and I place far more importance on stability and financial security, from our lifestyles one would have little understanding of our incomes.

Matilda you are still missing the point.

The point is that you were able to work those hours. You weren't tied down with young DC as a single parent. You didn't have a significant physical or mental health problem preventing you from working full time. Not everyone is that fortunate. I've been where you are too - but all the time I had my health and was in a position to do what was needed to make ends meet. It isn't like that for a lot of people, for a lot of different reasons.

@MatildaIThink I suspect you knew that poverty was temporary. Very different from - this is life.

@Smashingspinster

The thing that has always amazed and horrified me is how quickly things can spiral. A friend of mine was a SAHM with 3 small kids when her husband announced he had been having affairs through the marriage and was leaving, then had a massive stroke soon after. So she went from having a fairly well off life to having no income, not being able to access benefits, finding she was liable for all kinds of debt he had run up. Within a year they were living in a caravan, she could not afford to keep her car, and had to use food banks. I watched her get so ground down by it, it was heart breaking.

This.

We all make decisions based on our circumstances at the time.

It is scary how quickly things can change though. We all pay in so that there is a safety net for us when / if our circumstances change for the worse.

@Bingbong21 - I am so sorry that happened to you. I hope some help came along for you but the fact it could happen is just awful.

[quote julieca]@MatildaIThink I suspect you knew that poverty was temporary. Very different from - this is life.[/quote]
It was several years, masters, PhD, husband starting his own business, so yes it was not a short time, but it was also never the long term plan (although I am not sure many people plan for 60+ hour weeks for years at a time) and not having kids until we knew we were secure.

Honestly that is a totally different situation. You were young with a long term plan. You had a Masters and the confidence and status that comes with having a good education.
Its like someone temporarily homeless between a house being sold and buying another house, saying they know what it is like to be homeless. Yes its a stressful situation, but nothing like being homeless and having no idea when things will change.

However my husband and I place far more importance on stability and financial security, from our lifestyles one would have little understanding of our incomes.

I have no time for people like this in life at all.

@pointythings you hit the nail on the head.

Matilda so you believe that if people don't have children until they can afford it, everything will be OK.

Oh honey. We are all just one serious illness, accident or life changing event from being on the breadline - unless we are part of the 1%. Get this through your head: It can happen to anyone.

You have just been lucky that it hasn't happened to you.

I was working, earning enough to comfortably afford my 3 children and for their dad to be a stay at home parent.

Then my disabilities worsened and I became mentally ill, and their dad left.

I went from comfortably off to being a single mum of 3 on benefits, unable to work because of how unwell I am.

So waiting until you can afford kids doesn't work out as planned all of the time. I could afford my kids.

@BunNcheese

However my husband and I place far more importance on stability and financial security, from our lifestyles one would have little understanding of our incomes.

I have no time for people like this in life at all.

@pointythings you hit the nail on the head.

So you have no time for us because we do not spend conspicuously? We are not flash and have no desire to be, outwardly it is obvious we are not on low incomes now, but neither would you be able to tell that our incomes over the last six years have rocketed.

We don't drive flash cars, don't spend lots on going out or on holidays etc. But we do have savings, we overpay our mortgage and we pay into our pensions and we don't have any debt. It is a very different place to ten years ago when we had to work 60+ hours to have anything more than the basics.

A lot depends on the area people live...... I live in a cheap part of the uk. A decent 2 bed house can be bought for 80k, or even less. A builders type doer upper around 30000.

But the cheapest rent is still around £500 a month. Housing benefit doesnt cover that so they have to top up.

Greedy landlords have benefitted from the benefits system and housing benefit for years.. I honestly think it's long past time the government needs to bring in rent caps for certain areas.

The house next door to me was bought for £10000 30 years ago. It rents for £600 pm.

I also waited to be financially secure until we had children, that served me well!

As an aside, I have a masters and a first-class degree. They also served me well now I'm stuck in the position I'm in!

@MatildaIThink this isn't about what you spend because that is your business.

However to do a PHD and masters they are not cheap its a CHOICE. People from educated backgrounds have worked hard we know.... but it's more than IQ.

It's about having come from a certain type of background and family support is KEY TOO.

I work with surgeons and the majority not all have come from "certain" types of backgrounds in order to have been able to accomplish having a good career

I too have worked 60 hours a week whilst pregnant too I am by no means high flying.... my parents didn't support in ways I would of liked but I have done OK considering what I came from.

Several posters have had to point this out to you....

Matilda people on this thread have no time for you because you show no understanding of what the real world is like. Poverty can happen to anyone. Ill health can happen to anyone. You appear to think that if only you do x, y and z it won't happen to you, but the reality is just not like that. A little empathy from you for people who have been kicked hard by life would not go amiss.

This is the problem with the way people on benefits are viewed in the UK - driven by the right wing media, they are viewed as being to blame and therefore deserving of misery and poverty. This country would be a lot better if we all took a moment every now and then to realise that there but for the grace of [insert deity of choice here] go I.

I think it is extremely myopic not to understand that many people start out with good intentions, and life just intervenes and tips their life upside down.

And to think that being short of money when you are young and educating yourself to build a future, compares in any way with people who have had the rug pulled out from under them, shows a staggering lack of imagination at best.

Tbh I think we all need to be aware of any privileges.

I am considered "poor" because we rely on UC and anything my husband earns from self employment, UC varies according jto my husband's income .

Yet I don't consider myself "poor" because I have worked ..at one time being a higher rate tax payer, I worked for nearly 30 years with the same employer only leaving when my son's difficulties (he is autistic) became too much .

However those years of work meant I had everything needed in the kitchen for cooking meals, I had experience of making meals stretch, I know how to cook, I know about nutrition . So many people don't have that privilege,

I've a roof over my head, we have enough warm clothes for winter and also thin summer clothing , we have furniture etc.

The biggest issue for is is if things go wrong which they occasionally do.

Last thing that packed up was the cooker and I bought a second hand one for £100 (which I had to borrow). That was five years ago and the cooker is still going strong,

I'm considered "poor" but I'm not poor.

I do wonder how many of the 40% work full time? It doesn’t matter, no one in a rich country like the UK should be living in poverty. I’m just curious to know.
If families are working 16hours per week, it would follow that they would need top up. Are both adults working full time in a family and still in poverty? It’s a good thing the nmw is being increased. Maybe not enough

[quote BunNcheese]@MatildaIThink this isn't about what you spend because that is your business.

However to do a PHD and masters they are not cheap its a CHOICE. People from educated backgrounds have worked hard we know.... but it's more than IQ.

It's about having come from a certain type of background and family support is KEY TOO.

I work with surgeons and the majority not all have come from "certain" types of backgrounds in order to have been able to accomplish having a good career

I too have worked 60 hours a week whilst pregnant too I am by no means high flying.... my parents didn't support in ways I would of liked but I have done OK considering what I came from.

Several posters have had to point this out to you.... [/quote]
My masters and PhD were not cheap, they were also self funded, hence having to work on top of studying. It was my choice to work 30-40 hours a week when studying my masters, it was a decision my husband and I made for us to jointly fund my PhD, yes I was lucky to be with my husband at that time, the same with waiting until 32 to have my first child, having them younger would just not have been financially prudent, so we waited.

My background was the first person in my family to go to Uni, my husband was the second in his family as one of his uncles was a doctor, but no one else in his family had been to uni. We didn't have family money, were not gifted deposits etc.

My parents were OK, I love them, but they had their issues, many of which hugely impacted my brother. I also work with other people with PhDs who fled war zones as children, some from single parent households, etc. I accept that my life was a lot easier than theirs, but that does not mean it was a walk in the park.

And despite all your experiences you are unable to resist judging those who have not had your considerable advantages, MatildaIthink..

Not everyone has the ability or resources to complete a Phd, or any higher education course. The fact that you do is not because of any moral superiority or virtue on your part, it is blind luck.

Plenty of people work 60 hours a week for decades and have nothing to show for it. That's the random unfairness of life in a capitalist society

Some of the responses on here

Build it and they will come

I claim benefits as my sole income. I am disabled and I have two disabled children. I don’t tell a soul I claim because the judgement and stigma is unreal.

I worked all my life until a sudden illness took me down and I’m now the scum of society.

I lie awake at night wondering whether I should rob Peter to pay Paul that week, whether the council tax people will be understanding for the third time this year or whether I’m going to be penalised again for paying late.

It is so difficult to manage being paid fortnightly or every four weeks. Benefits are not reliable or secure.

I’ve been to tribunals to get what I should be entitled to as the system for disabled people is designed to be as hard and degrading as it possibly can. It took almost a year each time and I was left with no money each time. No change in my condition but having to prove every 2 years that I’m still disabled.

I don’t tell anyone I don’t work to avoid the kind of shit you see on this thread.

Folks need to remember life can change in an instant and nobody is immune from life.

@stingofthebutterfly

Your age is a factor as well. If you're under 25 you get less than an over 25 year old. Last time I checked, housing, bills and food cost the same whatever your age.

@stingofthebutterfly

I think that's because it's considered reasonable for under 25s to live in a flatshare, rather than having their own tenancy

@notanothertakeaway

It’s under 35 now that you get the shared accommodation rate of LHA.

Do some people not understand the challenges in being ill, disabled, a carer, a lone parent or even just the only wage earner
I have been single since ExDH left for OW when DC were 4 and 5
Despite being ill I have always worked but in no way can I match the same position financially as many of my friends who are part of a couple - despite being frugal

@LittleRedLyingHood

Some of the responses on here

Build it and they will come

I claim benefits as my sole income. I am disabled and I have two disabled children. I don’t tell a soul I claim because the judgement and stigma is unreal.

I worked all my life until a sudden illness took me down and I’m now the scum of society.

I lie awake at night wondering whether I should rob Peter to pay Paul that week, whether the council tax people will be understanding for the third time this year or whether I’m going to be penalised again for paying late.

It is so difficult to manage being paid fortnightly or every four weeks. Benefits are not reliable or secure.

I’ve been to tribunals to get what I should be entitled to as the system for disabled people is designed to be as hard and degrading as it possibly can. It took almost a year each time and I was left with no money each time. No change in my condition but having to prove every 2 years that I’m still disabled.

I don’t tell anyone I don’t work to avoid the kind of shit you see on this thread.

Folks need to remember life can change in an instant and nobody is immune from life.

No judgement from me @LittleRedLyingHood

Some of the replies in this thread show a huge lack of understanding of benefits, poverty etc