to blame Tony Blair for the lack of skilled workforce?

[dunkaccino]

In the 1980's only 15% of school leavers went into higher education leaving a good lot of people to become tradesmen/HGV drivers/butchers etc. Tony Blair decided in 1999 that 50% going to University was a great aim, which was finally achieved in 2019.

Now we have a lack of everyone useful - electricians, carpenters, fitters, engineers, butchers, drivers - coupled with a multitude of unskilled mickey mouse degree graduates who are of no practical use to anyone.

Covid & brexit have undeniably both played a part, but AIBU to think that Blairs idea was basically a bit shit and has left us lacking in the skilled workforce needed to run the country?

We live in a world where the media have immense power and where the use of communication intersecting with technology drives so much of what is going on. Anyone who thinks studying these phenomena is doing a Mickey Mouse degree is frankly a Muppet. Media and communication is one of the powers in the age we live in.

Media and communication is one of the powers in the age we live in

It's apparent that what students should really be learning in these courses is not being taught. Otherwise we wouldn't be witnessing so much nonsense all around us. So the Mickey Mouse label still applies

Excuse me for not having an in-depth k owl edge of the Korean higher education system. Why don’t you find out?

Do you think that Media and Communications degrees in China and South Korea are riddled with identity politics, for instance pointy? Most likely those students are being taught how to harness the power of technology in order to advance their national interests, I doubt this is being done here

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Well someone has to do it.

The thing is everyone slags off media degrees. But if you talk to career people, they say they have a huge employability rating.

Do people really need degrees in English too? I mean if media studies isn’t important why is English?

You're talking to the wrong career people

Media Studies and Communications are usually close to the bottom of graduate employability lists

@pointythings

We live in a world where the media have immense power and where the use of communication intersecting with technology drives so much of what is going on. Anyone who thinks studying these phenomena is doing a Mickey Mouse degree is frankly a Muppet. Media and communication is one of the powers in the age we live in.

It was a joke subject in Japan too when I was in uni there and most ended up in HR or as a generic office lady.

I don't know, gin. From your use of 'most likely' and 'I doubt', neither do you.

My foster son took a media A level. Identity politics was not part of the content. Propaganda and the use of media for manipulation absolutely were.

I've just had a look at the modules for the Media and Communication degree at UCL. Identity politics is not part of it.

UsedUpUserName when were you at university? Media was a joke subject in my day too. That was in the 80s. The world is very different now.

neither do you

I'm trying very hard to be subtle

I've just had a look at the modules for the Media and Communication degree at UCL. Identity politics is not part of it

Of course they won't be so open about it, but rest assured it will be there. As they like to say, if you can't see it, you are part of the problem

took a media A level

Anyway, there's nothing wrong with doing media, communication, social studies and the like. But probably it should be (off the top of my head) 30% of the offer. The rest of the students should be learning something more tangible (medicine, law, science, economics, accountancy, engineering, architecture etc)

Plus trades and actual skills

I'm trying very hard to be subtle

You're not succeeding.

Of course they won't be so open about it, but rest assured it will be there.

Well, that's not at all paranoid.

And then of course there is your assumption that all identity politics is bad. You want to go back to the good old days when all that stuff was brushed under the carpet. I agree that it has gone too far recently, but I also don't want to go back to the bad old days when people couldn't be open about who they were. As a parent of DC who have had to deal with awful homophobic and xenophobic abuse in our very Tory, very white, very Brexity small (and small-minded) town, I want to see us do better. There has to be a happy medium somewhere, and attitudes about how it was all better in the past are not going to get us there.

I also despair about the drive to monetise everything. When did learning become valueless? Destruction is being wrought on arts and the humanities because it's all about the £££.

I also despair about the drive to monetise everything

I agree, but the problem is that students believe these degrees will lead to well-paid jobs

@dunkaccino 100% agree.

Trying to get 50% of school-leavers to go to university was a stupid idea. No way is 50% of the population university-material. I know several very bright and academic young people who did their degree next to several people who could barely string a sentence together, because getting into university is piss-easy these days.

Even if you fail your A-levels spectacularly, there will be an university who will take you on via 'clearing.' No more than 1 in 5 people should be going to uni IMO. Young people at school and college need to be trained for different non-academic careers.

To force 50% - or more these days - of people to university is not fair on the non-academic people, and it's not fair on the academic ones who are held back by the ones who should never have gone to university.

When did learning become valueless?

The problem is that some of these students don't know how to do anything. Can they cure someone? Can they build a house? Can they repair a car? Do they know the law in detail?

DH is a tradesman and yes the comment above is spot on. The apprentices he’s had through college routes are useless, they have no physical experience but can write a brilliant essay on it.
Useless really.

The last few have struggled with people skills, or work ethic as well. And now there are no more interested in coming in to the industry

The problem is that some of these students don't know how to do anything

And again, ideas have value and they are powerful, that's true, but it's all about proportion in this case

[quote LittleDandelionClock]@dunkaccino 100% agree.

Trying to get 50% of school-leavers to go to university was a stupid idea. No way is 50% of the population university-material. I know several very bright and academic young people who did their degree next to several people who could barely string a sentence together, because getting into university is piss-easy these days.

Even if you fail your A-levels spectacularly, there will be an university who will take you on via 'clearing.' No more than 1 in 5 people should be going to uni IMO. Young people at school and college need to be trained for different non-academic careers.

To force 50% - or more these days - of people to university is not fair on the non-academic people, and it's not fair on the academic ones who are held back by the ones who should never have gone to university.[/quote]
I agree. We need to work backwards from the job market. If 25% of jobs "need" a degree, then we should be aiming for roughly 25% of school leavers going to Uni, preferably for relevant degree courses appropriate for the job market. Of course there also needs to be flexibility & wriggle room, for those who want to go to Uni solely for academic research/interest and those who havn't a clue what job they want (as long as they'll likely end up in a job requiring a degree).

What we've ended up with by using Blair's arbitrary 50% is a major mis-match between the job market and the applicants/unemployed.

Because there are so many graduates, a lot of employers lazily require any degree simply as a means of reducing the number of applicants, whether a degree is needed or not. That excludes huge numbers of people who are able and probably more suited to the job.

@pointythings

UsedUpUserName when were you at university? Media was a joke subject in my day too. That was in the 80s. The world is very different now.

Lol well after the digital revolution (although it never really took in Japan, oddly enough)

@EvilPea

DH is a tradesman and yes the comment above is spot on. The apprentices he’s had through college routes are useless, they have no physical experience but can write a brilliant essay on it. Useless really.

The last few have struggled with people skills, or work ethic as well. And now there are no more interested in coming in to the industry

When I started my own accountancy practice 20 years ago, we had loads of "trades" clients, including garage mechanics, etc., who had apprentices, and those apprentices went onto become self employed themselves etc (or into partnership in or took over the business upon owner's retirement etc).

Now, I havn't a single tradesman client or garage mechanic owner that has any staff at all. They're all "one man bands", The topic of conversation is always the same - they've tried (or heard of bad experiences from other trades colleagues) but struggled with paperwork/admin (colleges require stupid amounts of paperwork to "grant" an apprenticeship to a tradesman), or poor timekeeping, or severe lack of motivation/common sense, or simply not having the time to do all the practical training (as the college doesn't do it). A lot of them are now approaching retirement and their business, customer lists, goodwill, local reputation, etc will just be lost forever. It's a massive waste of potential talent.

Trouble is that most of the "good" youngsters are almost forced into the Uni route, which leaves too many incapable/disinterested youngsters going to colleges for the "trades", which they're not suited to. That's why there are so many conmen and incompetents in the trades these days - it's a vacuum left behind because the decent youngsters are shunning the work, which leaves the door open and demand for the shysters to ply their trade instead.

@VladmirsPoutine absolutely spot on!!! They don't seem to understand the basics of trade for a start..!

Yes it feels like a racket which is troubling.

@Kendodd

Except, we are also massively short of university educated professionals as well, example, doctors.

Medicine is one of the most over subscribed uni course in the UK, so much so that this year 18 year olds were offered cash incentives (£10k + first years rent) to delay their studies.

Medicine is over-subscribed because the medical schools have few places. The UK has a shortage of doctors.