to blame Tony Blair for the lack of skilled workforce?

[dunkaccino]

In the 1980's only 15% of school leavers went into higher education leaving a good lot of people to become tradesmen/HGV drivers/butchers etc. Tony Blair decided in 1999 that 50% going to University was a great aim, which was finally achieved in 2019.

Now we have a lack of everyone useful - electricians, carpenters, fitters, engineers, butchers, drivers - coupled with a multitude of unskilled mickey mouse degree graduates who are of no practical use to anyone.

Covid & brexit have undeniably both played a part, but AIBU to think that Blairs idea was basically a bit shit and has left us lacking in the skilled workforce needed to run the country?

When a generation were pushed into uni rather than the vocations, we had access to a European skills market. We have now severed ourselves from that skills market.
It will take generations to change this and we will be a nation of bodge for a while yet.

Interestingly, the theories I teach relate to how people make career choices and I'm specifically interested In how and why people choose university.
They can't be that pointless given we're all commenting on this thread!

It will take generations to change this

Not necessarily. Perceptions can be changed relatively quickly (see what happened since 2016). As can bureaucracy.

Capacity issues as mentioned in relation to doctors and midwives will take a bit more, but it's not an unsurmountable issue, and we need to act fast

Interestingly, the theories I teach relate to how people make career choices

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but if your role did not exist people would still make those choices without the need for all the meta-analysis. It's a bonus that it exists, but it's not essential.

However, without doctors people would die, without engineers we wouldn't have roads, without farmers we wouldn't be able to eat, etc, etc. It's pretty easy to see what we should be prioritising at a time of scarcity

I think there is broad agreement that the is a shortage of skilled workers in the UK.
I missed some of the budget, but am sure someone can enlighten me as to what steps were announced to address this problem?

Language degrees are useful

The government hasn't helped by withdrawing the funding for support for NHS courses especially when the students are working in the hospitals and the courses are long hours

@mustlovegin actually I stand by saying it will take generations to change. This is because there is a big difference between funneling people through degrees, and spending the time to build specific skills and practical experience. To be able to teach real skills you also need a teaching workforce with sufficient experience and expertise. We really don't even have that and it will take time to develop it for many vocations. You can't magic up this kind of capacity. It literally takes generations.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but if your role did not exist people would still make those choices without the need for all the meta-analysis. It's a bonus that it exists, but it's not essential.

Okay. You should remember this comment when people are complaining that young people don't get good enough careers advice and guidance in school. When government education policy completely ignores the benefit and value of a well funded, highly skills careers service because there isn't any evidence available because people like me aren't doing the research.

And when people are complaining that young people are making poor choices and are being herded into unsuitable university courses instead of being informed of all the choices available to them .... that's okay because what I do isn't important.

And all these comments about which skills are in demand and which sectors are crying out for workers .....who do you think gathers this data and makes sense of it?? Yep, that would be people like me.

When I was at an all girl's school in the 90s academic people were pushed to go to college and university and non academic people did either Health and Social care or travel and tourism at college or hairdressing. There were no other options given.

Going into a trade wasn't even discussed. I wish that it was otherwise I wouldn't have ended stuck in a poorly paid office job.

Fetarabbit - absolutely - which is why I said SKILLS rather than degrees. Many IT jobs, finance, healthcare jobs do not necessarily need a full degree - at least for entry level roles.

I think the most useful training comes on the job. Academic study can complement vocational experience and I think a short 2 year course with additional later qualifications to build up to a degree would be helpful in many cases.

I’m not against a traditional 3 year academic degree. It will suit some people and help people who are considering research and academia to progress quickly. But I think there needs to be a diversity of courses.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Spinsforgin.

It would appear so. I think all subjects have equal merit. That’s what makes for an interesting and diverse world. And people can study for the love of studying. If l had the cash, I’d do a different degree every 3 years. I like learning. Degrees l would choose would be

History, Sociology, Grsphic Design, Media Stidies, Politics, more history, more history.

I hate STEM subjects tbh. But don’t think they have any advantage or merit over any other degrees. Not keen on red brick snobbery either.

You don’t need to go to uni to study these subjects, there’s better resources online than in most British universities.

I always see jobs which are either driving jobs in the first place or need you to have your own transport or driving license. But loads of people can't afford to learn to drive or keep a car on the road without the wages from the job they can't do without a license/car. I often wonder if we could do driving loans like student loans but for learning to drive.

But l WANT to go to university to study thenl do t want to do it online.

I often wonder what is the value in the job market of a third class degree from,say, the University of Bedfordshire? Students come out with similar debt to higher ranked institutions. Makes me wonder about who is encouraging these poor choices, especially for families who may think that any degree is better than seeking a foothold in the job market.

Having worked at a University, the move from ‘students’ to ‘customers’ is leading to bad decisions on both sides.

I often wonder what is the value in the job market of a third class degree from,say, the University of Bedfordshire? Students come out with similar debt to higher ranked institutions. Makes me wonder about who is encouraging these poor choices, especially for families who may think that any degree is better than seeking a foothold in the job market.

My siblings were the first in my family to go to uni in the late 1990s. We had no idea what a red brick or Russell group university was, or whether some (other than Oxbridge) were thought of as better.
However even with a so-called "inferior" degree that you are inferring, surely that would open up more opportunities for jobs asking for a degree level education (even if that job is entirely suitable for school leavers)

A lot of the universities were former polytechnics.

Does anyone really think that the person starting the (actually incredibly employable, modern day marketing) social media degree would be doing medicine, by choice, if the "mickey mouse media" degrees weren't offered?

@woodhill

A lot of the universities were former polytechnics.

And?

@MeredithGreyishblue

Does anyone really think that the person starting the (actually incredibly employable, modern day marketing) social media degree would be doing medicine, by choice, if the "mickey mouse media" degrees weren't offered?

No they'd be doing what people would've done pre 90s (and some still do). Left school, gained experience in the work place as a junior/trainee/apprentice and worked their way up/built a network/business. The only difference is that would be minus personal and taxpayer debt.

Most jobs including law and accountancy don't require a degree.

Richard Branson and Alan Sugar are just two examples of the many extremely successful non graduates out there.

John Major left school at 16 and made it as Prime Minister.

@Tealightsandd

Most jobs including law and accountancy don't require a degree.

Richard Branson and Alan Sugar are just two examples of the many extremely successful non graduates out there.

John Major left school at 16 and made it as Prime Minister.

But these are very much the exception rather than the rule. I'm not saying university is for everyone but these examples are not useful as they never show the full picture.

You are right OP, it's even led to needing a degree to do basic administrative / secretarial jobs which is absolutely ridiculous.

We live in a very snobbish society and parents are hellbent on their kids going to university but many just end up in dead end office jobs. But it's ok, as long as little Tommy isn't god forbid... a plumber. The Scandinavian countries have the right approach, having a skilled trade is extremely highly regarded.

I do t think it matters what class of degree you get as you move in.

A relative is high in the civil service. He got a third from a former poly.

I’d love to know who all these recruiters are who sneer at thirds, or C’s at A Level, or didn’t go to a red brick.

Most people l know went to normal unis with normal grades. Yet they’ve all got good jobs🤷🏼‍♀️The ones l know who were real high flyers don’t seem to have very different jobs than the rest.

The recruiter I know went to York and got a first in a non-vocational subject

The class of degree matters because the majority of customers students now get a 2:1 or a First. Many job vacancies ask for a minimum of a 2:1. Many ask for a certain number of points at A-level too, so if you got poor A-levels but got into what was Shittown College of FE, now Shittown University and did brilliantly, you'll be filtered out.