Son changing with Mum at gym swimming

[tailspin21]

Firstly, I know IABU posting in this section when it's not technically but I could really use impartial opinions and I know this is one place I can get them!
So, the conundrum. DS is 8, coming up 9 years old. We go for a swimming lesson twice a week, the pool is attached to a local gym. The men's changing room is one side of the pool and the women's is the other, so they're not side by side. Hubby can't (or won't - different thread!) come with. I am very conscious that women are changing in there - there are cubicles and DS always gets changed in a cubicle, but not every woman does not should they have to. My question is how much longer before he really needs to be going into the men's? I'm becoming increasingly aware but what is the magical cut off?! On the one hand I don't want him making other women uncomfortable. On the other, as an 8 year old alone in the men's changing room he's vulnerable himself. Am I overthinking? When should he be making that move? He's not always the most sensible but is generally not completely daft!

@ImUninsultable that's your opinion though. Not mine.

I don't have boys. I have 5 girls. I don't give a shit if a CHILD of the opposite sex walks through a changing room where my girls are getting changed. That doesn't mean I don't want to protect my girls, it just means that they are children and don't think the way adults do.

Bullies are bullies, regardless. Just because one boy started called a girl names, doesn't mean everyone should be uncomfortable with children changing around children.

Tbh i do think 8 is a reasonable guideline but an unreasonable hard rule. I do not think it appropriate that anyone would complain about a prepubescent boy who was causing no trouble and was supervised as there are bound to be people who need exceptions because as i said, none of my kids would i trust to go into a changing room and get changed without adult supervision.
You may not like it, and I may not like the provisions provided but providing noones making trouble then try as i may, I cannot relate to anyone who thinks an 8 year old supervised boy is somehow a threat.

Boys of his age should not be in the female changing room.

Exactly, if there's a problem in the men's changing room than that is for men to be sorting out - it's not down to women to compromise our hard won single sex spaces.

And i definitely think that any mens changing room is going to have potential abusers and paedos in it.

I'm sure you wouldn't ever want your DD to be alone in a room with an unknown man at the age of 8, yet people seem to expect mums of boys to happily send their sons into that situation. What's the difference? An eight year old boy is as unable to defend himself as an eight year old girl.

Absolutely spot on.

One day, their grown up sons will also automatically be one of those suspicious men.

I am a mother to both girl and boy and I have worked in safeguarding so I fully accept that. Meanwile my son is eight and, as I have stated several times, we only go places with unisex changing rooms. I don't know how this implies I don't respect the privacy of small girls. I do not personally take my son in a changing room he is not allowed in. I simply think the 'whatever' attitude towards the safeguarding of small boys on here is eye-opening.

@MrKlaw

what do you do if your DS needs to go to the loo and you're out with him but without DH? At that age surely they're going by their own and you're waiting for them? This doesn't seem significantly different to that.

Unless there were separate 'tweens' changing rooms (one for boys, one for girls) I don't see a solution that is perfect. Maybe if you had larger unisex changing rooms that are cubicle only?

When my ds was 8 and we were out, he would come into the ladies with me. He was well behaved and we were in and out quickly. Like I said earlier, a teenage boy with learning difficulties was assaulted in our local shopping centre toilets. When my ds got older, he'd go to the men's...I'd stand by the main toilet door and talk to him constantly much to his embarrassment.

[quote ImUninsultable]@Peggytheredhen

It isnt all about predators. It is about privacy and dignity for women and girls. And honestly, about teaching boys that they dont get to use women's spaces or push past their boundaries.

The answer for space changing for boys just is not to use the girls changing. That's just not it.

Change poolside. Take a towel onesie and change at home. Speak to the centre.

Do not force girls to change in front if boys and say "I'm sure they're dont even care/notice".

They do. From my years and years of working with children. This is something that comes up. Girls care.[/quote]
As a teacher I can tell you that the girls care. From Y3 onwards they really care. So do the boys. They are far more ‘aware’ than we were at the same age. A previous poster mentioned how horrified her son would be if he had a towel ‘malfunction’ in the female changing room and his female classmates were in there and I suspect most KS2 boys would feel the same. You, as parents, are making decisions which can really embarrass them with their peers.

My sympathy is more with the girls though. It IS their space and they shouldn’t have to look around to see if a boy their own age is leaving a cubicle and crossing a communal space. By 9 and 10, many girls have started their periods and look like young women - and are probably feeling even more self-conscious than at any other time.

If mothers of boys have issues (some of which are understandable, if perhaps over-exaggerated), it is up to YOU to solve them but that doesn’t mean imposing on a female space past the age of eight. Take towel hoodies, onesies, whistles, whatever but your male child’s needs are not more important than a female child’s needs. Absolutely campaign for family-friendly spaces but it is up to YOU to deal with the issues until that happens.

Like a pp I find myself conflicted in my thoughts on this. I believe there should be sex segregated spaces but I also would not feel comfortable an 8 year old boy alone in the male changing rooms during a public swim session. Lessons wouldn't bother me so much as there are more parents in there with kids rather than lone males.

It hasn't really been something I've had to think about so far because DS only turned 8 a little while ago and our local pools all have mixed/family changing facilities. It has made me note to check the changing facilities before taking DS elsewhere if we are away.

And the PPs who suggest mothers concerned about their young son's safety are just 'wah wah precious fucking boys' and that the risk is very small so just get on with it, the misandry is strong in you.

Children of whatever sex are precious and vulnerable and their safety is paramount.

A woman isn't under any threat by being in a changing room with an 8 year old boy who is with his mother. An 8 year old boy alone in a changing room with unknown men is far more vulnerable.

Agree. I think this is an issue of MNetters apparently having enourmous children..seriously on half the threads they are saying their 7 year old is 5,4 “ and in size 7 shoes. My older son ( when I was a lone parent) at 8 looked 7 and could pass for 6 probably. He was nowhere near puberty and not interested in staring at girls or women, like most 8 year olds. At 8 they still get changed together for PE.
I don’t think boys are more important than girls but I think the safety of children is more important than anything, and maybe I’m scarred from growing up with lots of brothers but believe me male swim changing rooms. are exactly where weirdos hang out. They used to go in together but none would have gone in alone, too many nonces.
I also don’t recall being bothered by little boys changing in the same area when I was a little girl, but again, brothers. Plus I don’t think 8/9 year old children were sexualised by society in the way they are now.

But if mothers of sons are worried about their children being at risk from strange men in changing rooms then they have to accept that one day, their grown up sons will also automatically be one of those suspicious men. I don't know. I only have a daughter and of course I have to try to warn her about some male motives without putting her off men for life or regarding them all as bastards. Maybe mothers of sons are fine with them always being considered a risk to women.

I'm sorry, but I think this is a really silly argument.

Of course mothers of sons need to accept that, when their sons grow up, they may be among the small proportion of the male population who pose a risk to women and children. And that in certain circumstances, they may be viewed as being 'suspicious' simply by virtue of being a man, because of the actions of other men.

Yes, as the mother of a son, I find this sad. But I don't find it anywhere near as sad as the actual physical and sexual violence overwhelmingly perpetrated by men against women and children.

And it certainly doesn't mean that I'm going to send my 8 year old son into an unsafe situation just because I'm 'sad' that they might be considered a predator when they grow up. I'd take that over them being assaulted by a predator any day.

I have this issues too and have just decided to only use pools with mixed/family changing facilities. There is just no fucking way I'd allow a 9 year old change alone with grown men. Obviously most men won't hurt him. But it just takes one. On the other hand he is getting too old to be changing around pubescent girls because he's old enough to make them uncomfortable while also being young enough to potentially say something innocent but insensitive if it popped into his head.

A couple of gyms I've belonged to in the past displayed a notice in the women's, stating that under guidance from social services, any boy aged 8+ had to go in the men's, "for the protection of girls'and women's privacy and the safeguarding of the child".

@Whatinthelord

I mean this isn’t just about an 8 year old boy using female changing rooms at swimming pools, is it!

That’s just one, difficult aspect, of a much wider issue about the need to have safe single sex spaces for women and girls.

Thats clearly the issue. But little boys who are vulnerable children should not be collaterol damage to prove a point about a bigger issue with adult men

@VickyEadieofThigh

A couple of gyms I've belonged to in the past displayed a notice in the women's, stating that under guidance from social services, any boy aged 8+ had to go in the men's, "for the protection of girls'and women's privacy and the safeguarding of the child".

So what about the safeguarding of the little boy? An 8yo boy is no threat in a women's changing room, but he's potentially at risk on his own in a male changing room.

ds was 8 when he started going into the mens changing room which was the rules at our local pool and I think a reasonable age.

Didn't stop me changing super quick and standing right outside the mens changing room door like a weird stalker.

In the end the biggest problem was him either losing things when getting changed before swimming because he never put them in his locker, or leaving things behind when coming out!

We always went at busy times so there would have always been several men changing at the same time, so risk of anything untoward happening was very low.

@Comedycook
A woman isn't under any threat by being in a changing room with an 8 year old boy who is with his mother. An 8 year old boy alone in a changing room with unknown men is far more vulnerable.

ONCE MORE FOR THE HARD OF THINKING: It is about the feelings of the girls in the changing rooms

It isnt about predators.

This is exactly what it's about. Young boys are just as vulnerable to sexual abuse as young girls - look at the huge number of abuse cases that are emerging about systematic abuse carried out by some coaches with football clubs.

Children need protection, boys as well as girls.

Obviously the answer should not be that boys are allowed into women only spaces, but they do deserve some consideration of their vulnerability and for someone to come up with an acceptable way of ensuring they are protected as well.

It's so annoying that they don't provide unisex family changing rooms with cubicles for this exact reason. You're being put in a difficult position by their lack of flexibility.

I'd be inclined to arrive with swimmers under clothes so he can get undressed really easily, and then go home in a dressing gown if you've got a car?

It would be completely inappropriate for a boy that age to be in my changing room with 20 other older and disabled women. Apart from their kisser of privacy and dignity it would not be good for him to be exposed to all this naked flesh. Just no. Demand a family changing room.

Those who think it’s fine out of interest what age should a male stop using the female changing area?

He needs to go to the men's section

However his dad should go with him the first time

I simply think the 'whatever' attitude towards the safeguarding of small boys on here is eye-opening

The expectation that girls get thier own sacrosanct space yet boys are expected to change by the poolside or alone with grown men is awful.

[quote Brefugee]@Comedycook
A woman isn't under any threat by being in a changing room with an 8 year old boy who is with his mother. An 8 year old boy alone in a changing room with unknown men is far more vulnerable.

ONCE MORE FOR THE HARD OF THINKING: It is about the feelings of the girls in the changing rooms[/quote]
I do understand that and it's far from ideal but in a straight choice of the feelings of one set of children and the actual physical safety of the other set...the latter takes priority imo. Clearly I expect the mum to make sure her son behaves, and is changed as quickly as possible as far away affording everyone as much privacy as possible.

I'm sure you wouldn't ever want your DD to be alone in a room with an unknown man at the age of 8, yet people seem to expect mums of boys to happily send their sons into that situation. What's the difference? An eight year old boy is as unable to defend himself as an eight year old girl.

No I wouldn't want her in with the men. I would have thought that many decent men would be uncomfortable with an unaccompanied 8 year old girl being in the changing room with them wouldn't they? And she's a girl and should be in the female changing room . If I had a boy of 8, he'd be in the male changing room. As it happens, I hate swimming and apart from when she was a toddler and we went with friends, up to the age of about 5, DH took her swimming and as with the previous male poster, she went in the male changing rooms with him.