to smirk about Ulrika Johnson's predicament

[nametaken]

OK I probably am being horrible but I couldn't help but laugh hearing that people are calling Ulrika Johnson 4 X 4 - aparently it has really upset her.

Oh come off it. If a man was left by a woman in the way Ulrika was left, to raise a baby who could have died, he would be absolutely worshipped.
Colin Farrell was absolutely drooled over for saying nice things about his disabled son, even though he left the boy's mother and she is his primary carer. The bar is set very low for celebrity fathers.
Ewan McGregor has three kids, yet has twice buggered off for months to jaunt around the world, yet when his wife said she'd like to join him for a couple of weeks, loads of people (even on here) slagged HER off, and demanded to know who'd be looking after the kids. He is generally thought of as a brilliant father.
I am always seeing posed pictures of Rod Stewart with his many kids, with lots of admiring words about how great a father he is.

I'm enjoying the argument that because Ulrika Johnston has given a couple of interviews people are simply forced to be nasty about her. It must be hard to be that out of control of your own choices.

ooh sorry dara, i read your last line wrong. Yes i agree with you he probably would.

Yawn, where have i been vile and vitriolic Paula? Done a fair bit of name calling yourself so you have!

tis ok UC. i did read it as you meant it.

i just hate it when these threads end up being a general "barrage of abuse" at one person, who is not in complete agreement with the majority... it makes an uncomfortable read.

I hate the thought of anyone sitting at home, in their living room, having to defend every word they write.

I take both your points actually, and agree in part with both of you, in different ways

The love showered on celebrity fathers is in direct proportion to the vitriol heaped on celebrity mothers.

I apologised to UC when I thought I'd been too personal. But the point is, this isn't about her. It's about a whole climate in which women are slags and tarts and can't keep their kickers on and - worst of all - 'have spread their legs' for stuff that just doesn't get said about men.
The 4x4 comment sounds just a silly joke, but I think in a climate where you get all the rest of it, it's not benign.

And there is much worse stuff said about UJ outside this forum. I think this thread is very much the tip of the iceberg.
She probably does the Hello stuff because it pays so well and means she can be with her kids. I would cringe at the thought of doing it myself (not that anyone would ask!!) but if my career wasn't doing so well, I had three kids to look after and someone was waving a fat cheque and I could approve all the words and pictures, I might well be tempted. To be fair to her, I think the latest appearance she toned down the 'at last I've found Mr perfect' stuff. And I don't think there were any pictures of her children, but I might be wrong. I don't read hello.

paula, I' ve not read all the posts by everyone, by any means, just the last couple of pages, and it seems a bit much to me, thats all. yet, on it goes...

I'm not arguing, so please dont bring me into it.

I happened to read the prostitute comment as a turn of phrase, and nothing more, yet others wanted to read it otherwise and jumped on UC for it. this is what i was commenting on.

mincedpie
'We drove Paul Yates to her death then canonised the man who tormented her for so many years after all.'

dp please expand?

I'm a bit scared to say anything here incase some one sends the heavies round, so before I start lets all take a deep breath, get out of the chair , have a stretch, then come back ...

ok

The attacks on women when it comes to sexuality have been a constant in recorded history as far back and as recent as you could care to go. Just think about those poor women who were recently released from mental hospitals as old women when their only crime was to get pregnant out of wedlock? Their incarceration is a shame that no official has ever properly apologised for.

This does illustrate the fact that women are considered wholly responsible for the control of their fertility. 2 people have a shag but "she" is the one who gets pregnant. The playing field is becoming more even (more of a steep hillside than a cliff face- better but not great) but societies opinion does not change overnight.

I'm not going to defend the joke by explaining why it can be seen as funny - mostley because I'm still scared of those heavies, but also because I don't think this discussion is about UJ any more.

Please don't hurt me!!!!

Paulayatesbiggestfan where the hell did you get that quote from, and why are you asking me? why are yo now insisting on having a dig at me, when ALL i have done is suggest that people back off a little form barraging abuse at UC!

FGS! now i look back here and you have left this for me??? why??

I'm leaving this thread now, its upset me totally. I'm not causing any trouble.

I hate it when arguments ensue on here, I have enough nasty stuff in RL, and dont come here for it. so please leave me alone. I was trying to keep the peace a little. I have never, and do never intend to fall out with anyone on here. Please dont drag me in and start on me.

susie !!
the quote came from this thread Mincepiedermama

take a chill pill sheesh!

ok, sorry

I've just had my tooth taken out and have lots of stitches in the gaping hole it left behind. It hurts alot, and keeps bleeding. and my back is giving me terrible jip too.

none of which are at all relevant to anything, other than eaplaining why I might be being very oversensitive.blush] very sorry. pills, of any type would be a good idea...
sorry

( and that i have something to do with mince pies in my name so thought you meant me..)

I haven't read the whole thread so will probably repeat what others have said. The 4x4 joke is mildly witty but, for me, to laugh at it is to collude with a patriarchal way of thinking.

We all find life hard at times and have to make hard choices. We then seek to justify them to make ourselves feel secure and some people do this by slagging off people that have made different choices. Mumsnet has many examples of this, e.g. Breastfeeders feel smug and disapprove of formula feeders and formula feeders feel attacked and disapprove of judgmental breastfeeders.

Smug marrieds disapprove of single mothers because they think they are careless rather than just unlucky. Those who have lived a charmed life (thus far) look down on those whose lives appear haphazard but it's not as simple as that and religion has a lot to say about this.

Ok, maybe UJ is something other than just unlucky. Maybe she is not suited to long-term relationships. I think she is a bit bonkers, and possibly foolhardy, but, as some others have said, you do have to admire her resilience, ebullience and downright shiny, brazen, indefatigable optimism.

Why shouldn't she have children by different men? Matriarchal societies have been doing it for thousands of years. She is the constant in her children's lives and, although her career is not necessarily something to be admired, she does seem to be capable of financially supporting her own family. Stop the knee-jerk, brain-washed disapproval of situations which are different from your own or the prescribed norm.

susiecutie, they've been having a go at me but I've been too busy to post, so now they're having a go at someone else.
It's like a sport this

For all those who disagree with me and susie, please try and accept that people DO have differing opinions, that would be great thanks .

OY KITTY, GET YER OWN GANG - SUSIE IS IN MINE

I'm the one that has been called vile, vicious, sexist and my gender called into question not you!!

(though i see my questions as to when i have been as stated have yet to be answered Elizabetth/Paula?)

Who the hell is she anyway? What does she do? Why do you all care?

as an individual i dont think most of us have an opinion on her- ex weather girl/TV presenter/wife etc fine- but the dicussion has gone on from her to the principle of is is ok to sell your story then complain when people may not agree with you

kitty you sound about 12

Susie ! Its fine hope your wound is better today!

woah there, I'll probably get shot down in flames here, but I thought the 4x4 quip was witty - and factual, come to think of it . I don't disapprove of or condemn UJ or her choices. If I heard that gag down the pub I would laugh. And it's not the 4x4 joke that will hurt her DC's, it is the fact that their mum is being joked about by the general public and in the press where they can read it. But the joke is in the press because UJ has chosen to use the media in the past and, in this case, to draw attention to her 4th pregnancy - possibly for sound financial reasons. possibly to get back at the media - but nevertheless this thrusts her and by default her DC's into the public eye (again).

UJ is selling her story to the papers, she knows how things work and she gets the cash.

I don't think women are always slagged off for having children with more than one man in the media or in RL. look at this observer.guardian.co.uk/woman/story/0,,2007677,00.html

pmsl at 4x4

[misogynist]

Gryffin get your hard hat ready as I said almost the same last night and got a barrage of bombs and my words twisted and misused then thrown back at me.

Maybe you have said it better than me tho and will be ok

kitty what a load of bollocks. If people disagree with you then they are going to say so.

oh gawd UC you too.