To want to be a stay home mum?

[wanttostayathome]

So I've got about 6 months left of my maternity leave, and I already know for a fact I don't want to go back. I love being a mum and I want to take another year or two off to raise my baby before she starts school.

Financially, it would be tight and although probably doable we'd have much less disposable income. My DH thinks I should go back for the money and also to have some balance between mum life and the old me.

I however disagree. There's nothing more I want from my life than to raise my baby but I don't know how to approach this conversation with him, as I know my POV isn't the done thing and I should want to be able to juggle career and family.

So, AIBU?

@BettyCarver

No, I didn't suggest you leave the thread or site. That is untrue. I suggested that if you feel that generally anti- SAHM is an issue on MN, it might be worth considering starting a discussion about that issue.

The issue on this thread is about whether the OP should unilaterally decide for her dh that he becomes sole breadwinner- which I think each and every one of us has said, no, or course she shouldn't.

Yes, and I have also answered that and more or less agree with you.

It's a very long thread though and, looking through it, although there are no open personal attacks (apart from from silly cosmo one which is truly read as so silly it was a bit of a joke and probably isn't a personal attack anyway, just in poor taste) against sahms, I can still see why sahms on here were feeling as if there was some ganging up. I read it as an outsider and a wohp and that was also how it seemed to me over the course of the thread. It's fine to disagree with me (of course! As if you need my permission 😂), and it's very easy easy misread tone. But I'm allowed to give my opinion AFAIK. I don't even think it's a particularly offensive opinion but hey ho 🤷‍♀️

@min00 well, one could say the exact same about the opposite: that posters who bang on about how awful working is, wage slaves, hamster wheels and materialism, how they could never leave their children and miss the precious moments blah blah blah are fuelled by some deep seated insecurity about their own decisions.

That kind of talk doesn't actually move intelligent discussion forward at all.

@min00

The reason I think MN feels hostile to SAHMs is something well beyond the content of the comments themselves. It’s the simple fact that any thread with SAHM in the title tends to go ballistic and will always run to 1000 posts. It’s the fact that people (who are not SAHMs and claim to never want to be) are so bothered and have so very much to say about it - that’s what feels odd and strangely hostile. You can’t imagine why, anyone who is not a SAHM, would give a hoot, let alone post ad infinitum with some ‘view.’ The ‘view’ I’d often a thinly veiled agenda / insecurity and the very fact so many even feel the need to take a view on SAHMs speaks volumes, far more than the words themselves. I often think, if people need to come on a SAHM thread and go on and on about how “it wouldn’t work for them,” “financial vulnerability,” “good role model for children,” “need stimulation,” etc etc etc (we all know how it drones on), it just comes across as if they’re trying to convince themselves. A bit like ‘the lady doth protest to much..” Otherwise, I can’t imagine why anyone would care about mums who SAH, let alone get so vitriolic about them.

Yes, I think I agree with this really. It does seem strange that so many wohps seem invested in this sort of conversation, in a negative way, when they say they are doing what makes them happiest (not being a sahm).

It almost seems to me as if the NOT being a sahm is more important than anything else, which is a strange one. But again, maybe I'm misreading as tone can be everything and it doesn't translate well into text.

[quote BettyCarver]@min00 well, one could say the exact same about the opposite: that posters who bang on about how awful working is, wage slaves, hamster wheels and materialism, how they could never leave their children and miss the precious moments blah blah blah are fuelled by some deep seated insecurity about their own decisions.

That kind of talk doesn't actually move intelligent discussion forward at all. [/quote]
Those posts are also a bit nuts but ime uncommon and quickly shut down because most parents woh now. Sah is actually not the done thing anymore as the op says in her op.

And as I've said before, why the polarisation? Being a WOHM doesn't necessarily mean someone would hate the alternative! How odd to think like that.
I'm sure I would have enjoyed being a SAHM. I also enjoyed being a WOHM.

[quote Bothyboo]@DuploSubmarine

Right ok then so what was your point because you haven’t made it?[/quote]
Oh sorry- I missed this question. Didn't mean to ignore you there!

Your post where you said you had spoken to your husband who laughed at some of the posters in this thread is a common type of post. Women on mumsnet sometimes do this, where they want to enforce their own argument and do so by consulting with a man and then reporting that he agrees with her. This is intended to win the argument because a man said so.

Sorry if that was not your intention though. Again, these things don't always translate well into text and it used to be pretty common on here, so perhaps my presumptions were presumptuous

@BettyCarver

And as I've said before, why the polarisation? Being a WOHM doesn't necessarily mean someone would hate the alternative! How odd to think like that. I'm sure I would have enjoyed being a SAHM. I also enjoyed being a WOHM.

Because often on mumsnet, threads started by sahms are often bombarded with posts from people who have never been a sahm, would hate to be a sahm and would never do it because x, y and z. It does seem as if that's a little unnecessary on some threads. This one, I can see why people might say their own reasons for woh. But sometimes it is unnecessary and it does become polarized.

I agree with you that it shouldn't be this way. I mean, clearly! I'm a wohp defending the 'other team' as it would be if I believed the argument had to be polarized and binary.

Well I don’t understand the polarisation either. It did not exist in real life. It’s a MN phenomenon.

But if there is a thread eg, “I am a WOHM in such and such and am thinking about changing my hours from x to y,” that will not have hundreds of SAHMs piling in with ‘advice’ and ‘a view.’

Any thread with SAHM in the title is like a clarion call across MN. As I say, it’s a phenomenon. But the ones with most to say are the ones who are not SAHMs and never have been. It happens all the time.

Good post @TheDuchessOfDork

Though I think OP may have run for the hills by now.

Not seen that myself I have to say. I think there are a few nutters who like to stir the pot either against SAHM or WOHM, but most people just get on with doing what works for their family.

I think part of it is that sometimes people can't seem to engage in a discussion about someone else's circumstances without either making it all about their own (entirely different to the point of irrelevant) experiences or viewing a discussion about one situation/context as a criticism of their (again usually different) circumstances.

For example, it makes a huge amount of sense for both parents to discuss family set up plans prior to having a child. It also makes sense for posters to encourage posters to think about the short, medium, and long term impacts of whatever choices they make. Neither of those things is having a go at SAHP or WOHP. No posters should be putting themselves into victim mode when posters advocate that informed choices are made regarding family set ups.

I think that's true Lola and I honestly believe that the advice comes from a good place and with the best intentions...most of of time. But when you don't know the full circumstances, it is unnecessary to come on and say "get back to work NOW, because when your dh leaves you for the secretary [or insert other cliché]...". Sometimes the sahm then says "well, actually no, being at home works for me because..." and then a big bunfight ensues. Are you saying I'm not a full time mum? I do everything you do AND work (I work- this statements simply cannot be true unless you have a time machine, but that's an issue for another thread)! Then "precious moments. Never get those years back" from the other side. I could write the script myself probably... but I won't

So, I think, unless specifically asked for advice, you probably should avoid being too opinionated either way. And ime, I have the say the uninvited opinions do come a lot from people who would never be a sahm. I suppose it's because they feel strongly about it that they do post strong opinions, but it doesn't hurt to pause for a minute and remember you don't actually know the op's circumstances.

What generally happens on these threads is someone will post a fairly ridiculous statement (on either side) and then it lights the match whilst they sit back and watch the responses get increasingly defensive. Its like breast feeding/formula feeding threads, they also descend into the same.

Yes I agree with Duplo. On this thread, it so happens that the husband is not keen on his wife SAH - cue hundreds of repetitive comments about why two parents have to be on board etc etc. Which is obviously and blatantly true, but the fervent repetition starts to sound peculiar after a point and makes you wonder what’s driving it.

The fact is, even if the OP had just posted, “I’m going to be a SAHM” (and the husband was fully on board), the thread would still have escalated in no time and hit the roof. We all know the script. Lots of snipes about financial vulnerability undef the guise of ‘concern.’ This always happens even though people have no idea who they’re talking to on the internet and if they are advising a multi-millionaire! Then when all else fails, your husband will leave you; you’re a poor role model; you are destroying the feminist cause. Always the same. I remember some nutter in a recent thread who had never been a SAHM, but there she was, ranting and raving and linking to all these random articles that undermined them. It was unbelievable. I do wonder what these people are actually like in real life.

OP I know the conversation has moved on but you and your husband are a team, you can't disregard his views and force him to become the sole breadwinner. What if he fancies jacking in work to stay at home with you both in a year or two. Where will you be then? I have to say if my husband tried to move the goalposts like this I'd be divorcing him. Be careful.

On this thread, it so happens that the husband is not keen on his wife SAH - cue hundreds of repetitive comments about why two parents have to be on board etc etc. Which is obviously and blatantly true, but the fervent repetition starts to sound peculiar after a point and makes you wonder what’s driving it.

People often don't read the whole thread, just the first few posts or just OPs posts. If you find the truth and logic peculiar and think there has to be something odd driving it, then that's weirder than people not scrolling through 24 pages.

@LolaSmiles you're right; sensible discussion takes account of the medium and long term consequences of decisions as well as the short term. And that's not being anti- anything, or scaremongering about what if your dh runs off with the secretary. It's about facts, not shock tactics. And the fact is, women are vastly more vulnerable than men financially. That's not a pop at anyone, it's simply stating a fact. The statistics show that, for example, women have far less provision for their older age. And these are really really important discussion we need to be having, with each other and our children.

I'm relatively fortunate that I have an extremely good public sector pension - but even I'm shocked at how depleted it is compared to DH simply because until our children were age 4, I only worked 3 days a week. It's knocked literally thousands a year off my pension. And that was working full time pre- children and full time from the moment my youngest started reception class.

Now, I don't regret my decision to reduce to 3 days when my children were tiny (particularly as in my day, ML was very short so I really was going back to work when they were a few months old.) But the reality is, even working full time for my whole career bar those few part time years has had a dramatic effect on my pension.

So while the principle absolutely remains that couples need to do what works for them both, there are much bigger discussions to be had about issues which affect women generally. We've come a long way along the road to equality but we're not there yet

So while the principle absolutely remains that couples need to do what works for them both, there are much bigger discussions to be had about issues which affect women generally. We've come a long way along the road to equality but we're not there yet

Totally agree. These broader conversations have to be had. But, as has been said, the thing is, that you cannot expect to have current and for that to not affect your finances as couple, as things stand. Someone will take a hit. If you can't accept that, you cannot really have children.

The gender pay gap affects women who never take time off for maternity leave or who never have children at all. There is a broader conversation to be had there too.

Like you, I wish things were different, but even you who was not (I'm guessing?) ever a sahm lost out when you had dcs. So when people, (not you), pontificate that they have protected themselves by never being a dreaded sahp, the chances are their finances aren't what they were either. That's an issue which clearly needs to be dealt with instead of acting as if being a sahp for a short time, as the op wants to makes you the 'other' and as good as destitute, while wohps are golden. That isn't true at all and it does come down to this black and white thinking which we have all said is very misguided.

Havr children not current*

Same here Betty. There's a lot to think about when it comes to family finances and how to structure a family.

I find it bizarre how many times people on threads say that finances and how to arrange your affairs should be on the curriculum at school because they didn't do their research before making questionable financial decisions, or how lots of adults should become automatically entitled to the money/assets of another adult when they realise they've not thought through their decision, but then the knives come out and a minority of very defensive posters seem to have a bizarre objection to women advocating that fellow women make informed choices.

What's right in each situation will differ for each person and their circumstances, but I can't see why it's a bad thing to encourage women to make an informed decision about what is best for them?

There's nothing bizarre about people making ill formed decisions. Like the saying goes if you knew better.... some people genuinely do not know any better. It depends on what type of background you have come from it's crucial. There's no shame, it just unfortunate.

@Anotherlongroad

DuchessOfDork and Babysharkdududududu don’t know about you two but I’ve zoned out here and I’m not wasting my energy. In fact I’m putting the kettle on and will raise my cup to you two sensible people - feel free to join me wherever you are!! Enjoy your day ladies ☕️

It's fine if people don't like or agree with my life choices. It truly doesn't bother me. DH and I (and more importantly, our children) are happy with them so quite frankly I don't give a flying fig if other people aren't. Not my problem.

In real life, the only working mothers who've been openly sneery and judgy about me being a SAHM are the ones who, given the choice, would do the same but clearly aren't in a financial position to do so. That clearly comes from jealousy, I ignore it. They're not quite so sneery when they try to hit me up for free childcare in the holidays or after school.... (nope!).

Also in real life I know loads of mothers who choose to work, even though they could choose not to with lifestyle adjustments (like we did, we certainly adjusted a lot initially to account for the loss of my salary, less so now). They choose to work because they enjoy it, find their careers fulfilling, wouldn't want to be at home full time with their children. I don't think that makes them lesser mothers than me. It's just a different way of doing things. It's not the choice I'd make, but that doesn't make it wrong or awful.

I think it's high time we stopped judging other mothers full stop. Parenting is hard enough, without it being a battle of who does what and how. That goes for being at home/work, bf/ff, sleeping, weaning etc etc. Are the children happy, safe, loved, fed, clothed, warm, cared, for, engaged and secure with an appropriate care giver - be that a parent, family member or paid professional? Yes? Well then who gives a shit how it's achieved?!

BunNcheese
It's not the ill-informed decisions that I find bizarre. It's the complaining about the consequences of not getting informed, whilst often complaining on threads when posters encourage informed decision making and share information/things to consider.

The one that I struggle with is the claim that anyone who cohabit should automatically be entitled to their DP's pension and half the house. My issue with that is that people should be free to be legally joined, or legally separate, especially as many people have children from previous relationships so might want their assets to go to their children, not their DP who can then cut the kids out. But then on threads where posters advocate the legal and financial benefits of marriage in particular circumstances, or the need to have pensions/wills drawn up, or not paying towards a house without being on the deeds, or advising caution before giving up short, medium and long term security for a man who is not willing to make appropriate arrangemebts that value a SAHP contribution to the family unit, there's inevitably complaints that this is being awful to women, hating on SAHP, my DP and I have been together longer than some marriages... marriages don't mean something will last. There's so much defensiveness and criticism over what is essentially posters saying: "do your research, consider these factors, make an informed choice".

cue hundreds of repetitive comments about why two parents have to be on board etc etc. Which is obviously and blatantly true, but the fervent repetition starts to sound peculiar after a point and makes you wonder what’s driving it.

Well in this case it's obvious: because the husband in question isn't on board. It's the natural response to this particular thread and there's nothing sinister about lots of people pointing it out. Especially when we've had people saying OP shouldn't respect his wishes, should work to change his mind (her relationship was even described as "unhealthy" if she didn't keep on pressuring the guy) and so on.

OP presumably wanted to get a steer on the consensus and a strong, overwhelming response that it really does matter, a lot, if the guy doesn't want to do it, gives her the answer.

Exactly @LolaSmiles it's all about arming yourself with accurate information and most importantly discussing important life decisions with your partner. It also makes sense to review the situation regularly. I won't mean in a formal sense, but keeping the dialogue open so that if life throws a curve ball you can then rethink your plans. I guess we were fortunate that we could afford an excellent nursery for when I returned after maternity leaves, but even so, if one of our children hadn't been able to settle in childcare, or had got some serious illness or disability, we'd have had to rethink our plans - perhaps one of us giving up work completely or both going p/t and working around each other. The important word there being 'we'. We were both in this together as parents and a partnership is no place for forcing your own desires on the other person.

Parenting is a tough gig however you look at it but it's a shame that so many aspect of it - working / not working , breast feeding / bottle feeding become a war zone. At the end of the day it's raising happy well adjusted children who grow into happy well adjusted adults. And that can happen through many different set ups and ways of parenting. One of the advantages of being an 'oldie' is that I can see that first hand.... my adult children have childhood friends whose parents worked full time/ part time/ SAH... they really are all wonderful young adults!