Stop teaching child that it’s okay to refer to someone’s skin colour

[CannotThinkOfName]

Calling someone - a random person you don’t know - black is racist. I don’t care if your personal friend or your family member or someone else you’re close to doesn’t mind being referred to like this because they’re speaking for themselves as individuals.

Pointing out someone by skin colour is rude at best and at worst a form of racism. This is because

1. Skin colour that I was born with is brown.
2. Skin colour that I was born with does not define anyone. It doesn’t define your traits, characteristics, hobbies, goals, ambitions or anything else that truly defines who a person is.
3. It’s a form of racial harassment to start bothering someone at random and bringing up their race and colour for no real reason and singling them out by it.

I’ve seen people say there’s nothing wrong with their child referring to people by skin because they are just “saying what they see”. This is wrong because as a child, I never ever saw myself as “black” or described myself “black”. This is taught as a way to refer to people, it’s not simply a child “saying what they see”.

Please stop teaching your child that it’s okay to refer to people that you don’t know this way. If you do know someone and they’ve told you to call them black then that’s their choice as an individual. They don’t speak for anyone else but themselves.

If you don’t know someone’s name, - just ask them what their name is and call them by their actual name. Not “that black girl” or “the black woman” or “that black lady”.

@BeenThruMoreThanALilBit

Race is a made up thing. It’s not real so I disagree with you that you’re just “seeing reality”. If no one taught you the label black to call people, you wouldn’t have known such a term existed. Calling people black is learned behaviour that people pick up from the environment they’re either raised in or live in as an adult.

This is where your argument fails. Race is, socially and scientifically, real. If it weren’t, there’d be no such thing as “racist”.

You’re thinking things through, and you’ve had an idea. I don’t think you’ve thought it all the way through, though.

In countries where white people are the minority, I imagine they get referred to as “that white woman” just like the inverse happens in the U.K. I think what you’re getting at is that you don’t like being differentiated from other people, the majority of people, by the colour of your skin. That’s certainly not how you saw and see yourself, and there are other more relevant things to differentiate you from other people. However, this doesn’t mean that describing you as black is racist. It’s all the heavy, implied history behind this descriptor, which is intended or casually disregarded or blatantly denied, that’s racist.

I don’t know what the solution is (I don’t think society has reached at once, hence the replies you’re getting), but I don’t think it’s as easy as saying “black” is a racist adjective.

@BeenThruMoreThanALilBit Race is a social construct, it has no basis in science or genetics.

www.britannica.com/topic/race-human

That doesn’t mean racism can’t exist. Lots of things are socially constructed, we adhere to them and they massively impact our lives. We’ve collectively decided that pieces of plastic, metal or fabric have a specific value used for trade, and our society functions around that. Similarly we’ve created a construct of race and that has massively impacted the way people who are seen as particular races have been treated.

Well guess who? Is going to take a whole lot longer

A lot of people describe people as Asian when they were born here, though. And people call people Indiwhen their heritage might be from Pakistan, Sri Lanka or Bangladesh

@Iamanicepersonreally

What are your thoughts on describing people as white?

You tell me because like I said previously, I’ve never heard someone being described as white in a day to day situation. Whiteness is something that’s never used as a descriptor

So it’s your way no matter what? What about what other people want?

It sounds like you’re just out for an argument

Eye colour is genetic, though, do surely skin colour is the same?

OP, the comparison with "bitch" is a bit silly because bitch isn't a describing word - it tells you nothing that helps you identify that person. To describe someone as "black" is indicating the colour of their skin so as to provide a description. Totally different.

so OP, you prefer that lost wandering students in the rain continue to get wet, rather than suffer the outrage, not even in their hearing, of being described as the only black woman in the village ??

I’m reading this with interest and it seems that no one should speak for anyone else, ever. You’re 100% entitled to your opinion Op and I’m glad you’ve done this because it’s a subject people tiptoe around and we simply don’t know what to do. But I agree the subject needs to be raised. You’re basically saying teach your kids to not refer to a person as a skin colour. Done. I’ve never done that.
My choice not to do this actually dates back to a trip I went on to Thailand where Asian people would stroke my nephew’s face and arms (he was 15 months). A lady even went as far as to say ‘So pale, so pale! Hahahahaha’ and made me feel very uncomfortable. Racism goes both ways and I didn’t appreciate being made to feel like a freak for just having stepped foot in her country. Yes we are white, yes we were VERY white as it was December and we’d just arrived. I went home sobbing, after all, I’d travelled that far for a chance to get brown skin.

I know what you mean...

But a very close friend who is black and works in an all-white work environment always laughs to me when people she works with are asked to describe her and say things like "the one who frequently wears a red coat" or "the one with braids" when asked to identify her.

She says that in a professional environment she is usually one of a small handful of non-white people in the room and in every scenario would be much more comfortable being identified as "the black woman" than have people beat about the bush.

I totally appreciate that all black people don't have a homogenous perspective on this. And white people need to take guidance from black people on this. But I think its fair to say that this is not a uniform perspective.

And when children are concerned there's an added layer of complexity in that they have not usually acquired sufficient awareness of the politics and diplomacy of race to understand that what they are saying could be offensive.

I remember being on a train with my DD when she was about three and she pointed to a woman sitting opposite and said "that black lady said x" (she was very distinctively dark-skinned so my daughter meant literally black as opposed to using this as a racial term). I apologised to the woman and she told me not to be ridiculous as my child was literally describing what she saw.

So I think this is a minefield. Pointing out skin colour is clearly something children should be discouraged from doing. But what they are often doing is merely identifying and you can inadvertantly make things worse by trying to stop them doing this.

I have heard people be referred to as white. I have an Asisn friend who does that all the time

This is good advice to have. Thank you. I have a close friend who has a daughter who is half Swedish and half African so I do my best to learn about this. It’s always good to have information about things one might do unconsciously in order to break habits that while we as white people might not think anything about, we might want to see it from the other perspective.

Also, the people who aren’t actually reading what you wrote and arguing why they think it is ok is especially pathetic. She’s telling you why you shouldn’t do it.. and you’re arguing why you think it’s acceptable.

I’m embarrassed for you. Sometimes when people of colour tell you something is offensive, instead of arguing why you should keep doing or saying what offends them, you could actually take some time to examine from their perspective and listen.

As black person this is all to much for me too much sensitivity on certain things. I am a black woman and I am fine with being addressed with that. I agree saying oh you know Sophie "the black lady" is lazy and I don't appreciate it, it's an easier way of describing me and I couldn't give a crap if someone described me that way. This is who I am!

Seems like everything is racist! My parents came here in the wind rush and were treated badly you don't see them going on about this is racist and this isn't. Get a grip!

@Lottle and @hotmeatymilk Yes. It the Little Britain sketch were Linda calls up Michael (Hello Michael, It's Linda) to try and describe the person sitting in front of her. She will describe everything except the most obvious characteristic that would help to immediately identify the person. One of them confirmed it was based on someone at their college or university who was so worried about being politically correct

This reminds me of the two Colins in IT and a graduate tying himself in nots trying to describe Colin without referring to his dreadlocks or skin colour, Colin himself even thought it pretty funny. He settled on not the white one as not to offend anyone.

You tell me because like I said previously, I’ve never heard someone being described as white in a day to day situation. Whiteness is something that’s never used as a descriptor
I just gave an example. Literally every single day.

@glitterelf

Unfortunately there are times where people do have to be descriptive of others for many reasons however this doesn't automatically mean someone is racist. As you say in your op some individuals like to be referred to as black whereas you don't would you prefer people referred to you as a person with colour ? As someone who has used many previously acceptable terms over the years not just concerning the colour of skin but also terms that were acceptable regarding disabilities I'll put my hands up high and say I personally don't have a clue as to what I can and cannot say with fear of offending people so I choose to not say anything. So how would you like us to educate our children it's all good and well saying don't say this don't say that but what should we say ? Regarding my own children they are aware that everybody is different and they don't have any issues with their peers.

Their name is an option to use is it not? It’s not about which labels you can and cannot say, it’s about teaching children respect. Respect also means learning to refer to people by their names. If you don’t know what someone’s name is, teach them to ask, what’s your name, then calling them that. Anything else feels rude.

Interesting. My DD is 6 and when she first got a best friend at school last year, she described her to me. "Black hair with colourful beads in and dark skin" were the descriptors she used. That seems like an appropriate way for a child with no concept of race or ethicity to describe someone. Would you have an issue with this OP or is that ok? Genuine question.

on the grounds that it's preferable to be rained on for longer than to be described in a way that makes finding you easier.
hundreds of red coats. one black woman. but don't mention it. racist. ok.

Pretending different skin colours don't exist doesn't make racism go away. In fact avoiding mentioning skin colour(be it black, white, brown or anything else), when it's necessary or appropriate, makes it seem as if the difference is important or matters which feels more racist to me.

Mummy that man over there with brown skin looks friendly.

No love he has black skin not brown.

I'd correct my young son to say black as that's the right way to describe? Correct me if I'm wrong of course

Where are we with "omg it's white girl hill over there" when a group of females refer to another group of females sitting on a grassy slope by their skin colour and then defining the geographical location of where they are sitting by their skin colour? Racist or not?

But op how eg would I ever talk about the lack of black male entrants to my profession. Indeed why would I even ever be worried about it. In fact even noticing it, let alone caring about it and doing things about it, would in itself be racist ?
I must be misunderstanding something fundamental here.

But “the man with a beard” or “the woman wearing glasses” could have skin of any colour. When a person says “the little black girl” it suggests that the main distinguishing feature of that girl is her skin colour. Whereas you could say, “the girl with glasses” or “the girl with her hair in bunches” or “the girl in the yellow dress” and mean the same girl, but without singling out her skin colour as the only thing about her. It does presume that there will be only one black person as otherwise their skin colour wouldn’t distinguish them from everyone else, and yeah, that is racist.

My DD is black and I was asked by another parent where she was at a party. I chose to go down the 'one in the blue jumper' route but if I described her as the 'little black girl' that is not racist ffs. She was the only black child there!

I wouldn't even mind another person describing her that way, as long as it's phrased appropriately. 'The little black girl/with the buns or XYZ' is a perfectly valid description of my child.

This whole post is a contradiction.