Stop teaching child that it’s okay to refer to someone’s skin colour

[CannotThinkOfName]

Calling someone - a random person you don’t know - black is racist. I don’t care if your personal friend or your family member or someone else you’re close to doesn’t mind being referred to like this because they’re speaking for themselves as individuals.

Pointing out someone by skin colour is rude at best and at worst a form of racism. This is because

1. Skin colour that I was born with is brown.
2. Skin colour that I was born with does not define anyone. It doesn’t define your traits, characteristics, hobbies, goals, ambitions or anything else that truly defines who a person is.
3. It’s a form of racial harassment to start bothering someone at random and bringing up their race and colour for no real reason and singling them out by it.

I’ve seen people say there’s nothing wrong with their child referring to people by skin because they are just “saying what they see”. This is wrong because as a child, I never ever saw myself as “black” or described myself “black”. This is taught as a way to refer to people, it’s not simply a child “saying what they see”.

Please stop teaching your child that it’s okay to refer to people that you don’t know this way. If you do know someone and they’ve told you to call them black then that’s their choice as an individual. They don’t speak for anyone else but themselves.

If you don’t know someone’s name, - just ask them what their name is and call them by their actual name. Not “that black girl” or “the black woman” or “that black lady”.

If the idea of race is made up, can anyone, indeed, be racist?

@SprayedWithDettol

I agree with your position OP. By saying ‘the black lady’ suggests that the standard is white and the person being discussed deviates from the standard. I don’t ever hear the ‘white lady’ as a descriptor. I am white and I think it is racist.

80% of the population in England and Wales is white, so you’d be unlikely to head “the white lady” as a descriptor, unless they’re with mostly non - white people.

Are you seriously comparing the descriptive word 'black', to calling someone a 'bitch'?

@bestcattoyintheworld

Race is a social construct and is not genetic.

Agreed. We're talking about skin colour though, not assuming someone's race from their skin colour - which would be racist I agree.

Bitch is not a descriptive term. It is derogatory, so not a good example.
Sorry.

@WimpoleHat

It depends on context, surely? If I am the only white woman in the room and someone asks “which one is Wimpole?”, then it would make sense to say “Wimpole is the white lady”. If it is a room of predominantly white people and I’m the only person in a yellow jumper, it would be more nati to say “Wimpole is the woman in the yellow jumper”. Surely?

No. Why wouldn’t someone / you still say “Wimpole is the one in the yellow jumper” in a room full of Black people and you being the only white person? It’s still descriptive. You’re making white the default option and descriptor when it shouldn’t be. That’s the OP’s point.

@00100001

"Calling people black is learned behaviour that people pick up from the environment they’re either raised in or live in as an adult."

So, therefore, calling the only white man in a group "the white man" is racist.

Calling the only wheelchair user "the wheelchair user" is ablist....the only old person, ageist. ...the only woman, sexist. ...the only glasses wearer, sightist....

I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone teaching their kids to call people “the white man”. Race is only acceptable to mention, from what I’ve seen in real life if you’re pointing out that someone is black. I’ve never heard people point out someone is white before. Could be just me though.

If the idea of race is made up, can anyone, indeed, be racist?

It's made up, but it still exists.

@PotteringAlong

Race is a made up thing. It’s not real

Why is race not real? How is it made up?

Because there isn't a gene which tells you which race you are. It isn't a biological category.

As someone who is mixed race, I've always found the concept of race confusing. Particularly the way that people feel the need to categorise based on race.

We had racial sensitivity training at our workplace just last week. The presenter, who was excellent, was a woman who said that she describes herself as "proudly, black". She went to great lengths to describe how she and other people she knows wish to "celebrate their blackness", not hide away from it.

Not saying you're wrong, OP, but clearly there are a range of feelings and opinions about this.

Do you disagree with the “blackmumsnetters” section on this website?

So for descriptors sake, what are you if you are not black? Seems we can't say anything about race without being classed as racist. A black lady, a Chinese lady, a Spanish lady, an Indian lady.... Its a descriptor to easier identify/describe someone because of their own characteristics.

Me myself have been described as the tanned blonde scottish one with big boobs.... Now I could get offended by every one of those descriptors.... But if someone needs to identify me in a group, how else do you do it.

I am now wary on describing someone as mixed race and not black, but if I don't know them and not know how they identify in terms of their skin colour then I'm potentially offending them no matter what I say.

The police, when issuing a description, will say that the person is white or black.

@WorraLiberty and @Lipsandlashes I explained that point in my post. In rap and hip hop culture bitch is often used to describe women and there it’s simply a descriptive term, it’s not considered derogatory. Same as the n word in rap and hip hop. However we can all understand that just because a segment of a population call themselves those words, doesn’t mean everyone in that particular population wants to be called those names.

Which is the main point of my post. You can’t assume that you know what someone likes and dislikes being called or what’s going to offend someone. To avoid this, it’s better to learn to use something like their actual given name.

I don’t ever hear the ‘white lady’ as a descriptor

If there was a group of people, only one of them white, and someone asked "which is Julie?"
Wouldn't you say the white lady?

That said, what I find annoying is Black people being referred to as a subset of the human race.

Eg:
Award for best actor.
Award for best black actor.

The most beautiful woman.
The most beautiful black woman.

Here, "white" is the default and it's ludicrous.

[I know Black people have had to carve out their own categories for things due to racism in the mainstream categories and never being acknowledged.]

Perhaps describing someone as black/asian/Chinese shouldn't be the first thought when looking to differentiate people from one another. There will be times when it is necessary but in other instances saying the lady in the yellow jumper or the long dark hair etc would suffice. Perhaps automatically jumping to say 'the Asian man over there' does indicate you see race first. As a PP says it is an observable fact but in repeatedly doing so perhaps it reinforces the otherness of different races when done in front of a child for example.

I’ve never heard people point out someone is white before

Really?! If I saw a crime being committed by a white person and I was describing the perpetrator to the police, I'd absolutely say that the person was white.

Did you just assume that most people on here are women? That's incredibly wrong! You can't go around describing people as women. Maybe the women you know don't mind but it's not for them or you to speak for all women! But seriously how much have you had to drink op?

This is ridiculous, I’m not white and am happy for others to describe me as my race. It acknowledges my cultural heritage. If you can’t even describe race, where do you even start to address racial inequality?

Can I ask about things like Black History Month and Black Lives Matter? Would you rename them or are they ok because they were created by people who are happy with that word?

My father was a black man. Loved his blackness, after years of being called
'negro' 'coloured' 'n**r'. So YOU disavow black if you want, I'm keeping it !

You sound hard work & frankly fucking unhinged.

someone is clearly bored today and is looking for an argument!

@EnrouteNOTonroute

Do you disagree with the “blackmumsnetters” section on this website?

No I don’t. The reason is there’s a specific reason why that section is named that. Black mumsnetters section from what I know was created because people requested it and it’s mainly for mums to speak to other mums about parenting issues that people from the same or similar ethnic groups can relate to. Such as school choices and hair stuff and other things like that. It’s just a title of a section

Race is a made up thing. It’s not real so I disagree with you that you’re just “seeing reality”. If no one taught you the label black to call people, you wouldn’t have known such a term existed. Calling people black is learned behaviour that people pick up from the environment they’re either raised in or live in as an adult.

This is where your argument fails. Race is, socially and scientifically, real. If it weren’t, there’d be no such thing as “racist”.

You’re thinking things through, and you’ve had an idea. I don’t think you’ve thought it all the way through, though.

In countries where white people are the minority, I imagine they get referred to as “that white woman” just like the inverse happens in the U.K. I think what you’re getting at is that you don’t like being differentiated from other people, the majority of people, by the colour of your skin. That’s certainly not how you saw and see yourself, and there are other more relevant things to differentiate you from other people. However, this doesn’t mean that describing you as black is racist. It’s all the heavy, implied history behind this descriptor, which is intended or casually disregarded or blatantly denied, that’s racist.

I don’t know what the solution is (I don’t think society has reached at once, hence the replies you’re getting), but I don’t think it’s as easy as saying “black” is a racist adjective.