Stop teaching child that it’s okay to refer to someone’s skin colour

[CannotThinkOfName]

Calling someone - a random person you don’t know - black is racist. I don’t care if your personal friend or your family member or someone else you’re close to doesn’t mind being referred to like this because they’re speaking for themselves as individuals.

Pointing out someone by skin colour is rude at best and at worst a form of racism. This is because

1. Skin colour that I was born with is brown.
2. Skin colour that I was born with does not define anyone. It doesn’t define your traits, characteristics, hobbies, goals, ambitions or anything else that truly defines who a person is.
3. It’s a form of racial harassment to start bothering someone at random and bringing up their race and colour for no real reason and singling them out by it.

I’ve seen people say there’s nothing wrong with their child referring to people by skin because they are just “saying what they see”. This is wrong because as a child, I never ever saw myself as “black” or described myself “black”. This is taught as a way to refer to people, it’s not simply a child “saying what they see”.

Please stop teaching your child that it’s okay to refer to people that you don’t know this way. If you do know someone and they’ve told you to call them black then that’s their choice as an individual. They don’t speak for anyone else but themselves.

If you don’t know someone’s name, - just ask them what their name is and call them by their actual name. Not “that black girl” or “the black woman” or “that black lady”.

Nah that's not racist. Get over it.

I'm a HCP and my visiting student was lost. Her uni phoned me to tell me she was lost and wandering the town looking for my clinic. I said I'd drive out and look for her. They described her as wearing a red coat. A bloody red coat for gods sake! Every second person in this busy country town was wearing a red coat. I drove past her several times before eventually I stopped to ask if she was the one. She was. But she was black! In a town where I saw no other black people at all that day. Why would they not have told be the most pertinent thing about her appearance? Anyhow the upshot was she got needlessly wet as it was raining quite heavily, but lived to tell the tale.

A black lady, a Chinese lady, a Spanish lady, an Indian lady.... Its a descriptor to easier identify/describe someone because of their own characteristics.

Except there's no nationality called Black. It's obvious where the Chinese, Indian and Spanish ladies are from. What about the Black lady?

This isn't a good argument for it but a lazy way to lump everyone with brown skin together.

So in a predominately Black or Asian Country or community, how would people describe a white person then?

It's just a signifier. My husband looks visibly Jewish and wears a yarmulke. People have referred to him as "that Jewish guy over there". As long as they're not wearing an SS uniform or swastika, it's literally just a descriptor.

@Stompythedinosaur

I do not think that referring to someone's skin colour is racist. I do think phrases like "that black lady" convey that white is the "normal" skin colour and therefore probably are racist. Using your preferred language to describe skin colour is also a very reasonable request.

But if I have to describe someone (my job involves describing missing people to the police at times) I think it would be ridiculous not to use skin colour. I also specify when someone is white.

Well, white people are the norm in Europe. So yes, people will describe strangers by whatever stands out. I can assure you that in Asia and Africa people will refer to you as the white person if they have to.

Obviously if people use race to insult that's another mater altogether.

@Crabbitcrab

Did you just assume that most people on here are women? That's incredibly wrong! You can't go around describing people as women. Maybe the women you know don't mind but it's not for them or you to speak for all women! But seriously how much have you had to drink op?

It was an assumption. If you don’t consider yourself a woman, then state what you feel that you are and I’ll call you that.

The police, when issuing a description, will say that the person is white or black.

I cannot believe someone has posted this in seriousness

I don’t think that referring to someone as ‘black’ is racist. It’s a physical characteristic and is discriminating between someone who is another colour. The word ‘discriminate’ has been hiijacked and now people only see it as a bad thing whereas it’s also about seeing the difference between two things and not necessarily in a bad way.

“Black”, and “Brown” are not derogatory terms OP, there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that people have different skin tones !

@BeenThruMoreThanALilBit

Race is a made up thing. It’s not real so I disagree with you that you’re just “seeing reality”. If no one taught you the label black to call people, you wouldn’t have known such a term existed. Calling people black is learned behaviour that people pick up from the environment they’re either raised in or live in as an adult.

This is where your argument fails. Race is, socially and scientifically, real. If it weren’t, there’d be no such thing as “racist”.

You’re thinking things through, and you’ve had an idea. I don’t think you’ve thought it all the way through, though.

In countries where white people are the minority, I imagine they get referred to as “that white woman” just like the inverse happens in the U.K. I think what you’re getting at is that you don’t like being differentiated from other people, the majority of people, by the colour of your skin. That’s certainly not how you saw and see yourself, and there are other more relevant things to differentiate you from other people. However, this doesn’t mean that describing you as black is racist. It’s all the heavy, implied history behind this descriptor, which is intended or casually disregarded or blatantly denied, that’s racist.

I don’t know what the solution is (I don’t think society has reached at once, hence the replies you’re getting), but I don’t think it’s as easy as saying “black” is a racist adjective.

Yes, tell me what I should accept being referred to as.

@bestcattoyintheworld

If the idea of race is made up, can anyone, indeed, be racist?

It's made up, but it still exists.

I know it does but the premise for the argument is flawed. Any 'ism' is referred to something as 'anti.'

If race doesn't exist as a concept, you can't be 'anti' it.

So, therefore, if racism exists, so does race. Otherwise, racism is some made up thing as well

@themuttsnutts

We do describe people in other ways, though. For example, the blonde lady, the man with the beard, the woman wearing glasses. I would feel funny describing someone as black but, objectively, I don't really know how it's different unless you take into account history of oppression and white privilege

But “the man with a beard” or “the woman wearing glasses” could have skin of any colour. When a person says “the little black girl” it suggests that the main distinguishing feature of that girl is her skin colour. Whereas you could say, “the girl with glasses” or “the girl with her hair in bunches” or “the girl in the yellow dress” and mean the same girl, but without singling out her skin colour as the only thing about her. It does presume that there will be only one black person as otherwise their skin colour wouldn’t distinguish them from everyone else, and yeah, that is racist.

My 8 year old doesn't know her friends are black as I don't think it's something she's really aware of though we do talk about racism, American history etc, but when trying to describe a friend at school, she said the tall girl with dark brown skin. Is it ok as a descriptor? Like the small blonde girl for example?

@hotmeatymilk I was thinking the same. I feel I've seen a sketch show about people dancing round it!

So a white girl standing with her friends who are all black, if asked to identify her you wouldn't say "the white girl"?

You'd pretend you didn't see that and say "the one with the grey trousers / green bag" etc etc? Is that right?

What are your thoughts on describing people as white?

If there are two women or men of similar age, build etc. 5hen; 'the white guy/black guy' determines who is being referred to. It is not racist.
Just like someone referring to ' the woman/man' is not sexist either.
You are being OTT. Maybe you don't like it, but it is not racist.

@SrownBkinGirl

A black lady, a Chinese lady, a Spanish lady, an Indian lady.... Its a descriptor to easier identify/describe someone because of their own characteristics.

Except there's no nationality called Black. It's obvious where the Chinese, Indian and Spanish ladies are from. What about the Black lady?

This isn't a good argument for it but a lazy way to lump everyone with brown skin together.

Exactly. If you’re a “black lady”, then that’s all you are, ethnicity or nationality apparently don’t exist for “black ladies” but it does exist for Chinese, Spanish and Indian ladies.

Question for you...we have a shoplifter in store, in winter, so blue jacket and jeans with a face mask is not going to help identify them. We would also say ic1 male or female... or ic2 or ic3. Is that racist? Or is it just description?

@SprayedWithDettol

I agree with your position OP. By saying ‘the black lady’ suggests that the standard is white and the person being discussed deviates from the standard. I don’t ever hear the ‘white lady’ as a descriptor. I am white and I think it is racist.

I bet in predominantly black skinned countries they use the term ‘white’ man/woman a lot when picking someone out of the crowd who looks different. Is that also considered racist by your argument?

@endlesscraziness It is and actually the best descriptor that has nothing to do with race but some will say it isn't. So...🤷🏽‍♀️

I can’t take you seriously because you keep contradicting yourself. So a descriptive term of ‘black’ is very much not ok! But ‘Blackmumsnet’, ‘Black Lives Matter’ and ‘Black History Month’ are absolutely fine?
Also ‘bitch’ and the absolutely awful N word are NOT descriptive words!

You keep saying one person can't decide for all, but aren't you 'one person' that is trying to decide for all?

While it’s fine to say it makes you uncomfortable, I disagree it’s racist. Children will describe people very bluntly - the lady with the bumpy skin (person with spots), the fat man (the one that mortified my mum when I was 3). I don’t think teaching people not to see colour is beneficial for anyone. Embracing our differences and recognising our similarities and how the two can successfully combine is what will end racism, not pretending we’re all the same and ignoring those differences.