Stop teaching child that it’s okay to refer to someone’s skin colour

[CannotThinkOfName]

Calling someone - a random person you don’t know - black is racist. I don’t care if your personal friend or your family member or someone else you’re close to doesn’t mind being referred to like this because they’re speaking for themselves as individuals.

Pointing out someone by skin colour is rude at best and at worst a form of racism. This is because

1. Skin colour that I was born with is brown.
2. Skin colour that I was born with does not define anyone. It doesn’t define your traits, characteristics, hobbies, goals, ambitions or anything else that truly defines who a person is.
3. It’s a form of racial harassment to start bothering someone at random and bringing up their race and colour for no real reason and singling them out by it.

I’ve seen people say there’s nothing wrong with their child referring to people by skin because they are just “saying what they see”. This is wrong because as a child, I never ever saw myself as “black” or described myself “black”. This is taught as a way to refer to people, it’s not simply a child “saying what they see”.

Please stop teaching your child that it’s okay to refer to people that you don’t know this way. If you do know someone and they’ve told you to call them black then that’s their choice as an individual. They don’t speak for anyone else but themselves.

If you don’t know someone’s name, - just ask them what their name is and call them by their actual name. Not “that black girl” or “the black woman” or “that black lady”.

Referring to someone as black or white isn’t racist!!

I agree. What I was pointing out is saying others who don't want to be called Black are ashamed of it. It always comes down to the question - what does being Black mean and where has anyone said they are ashamed of that?

On the contrary, people who're accused of being ashamed of Black are rather very proud of their cultural heritage and all it entails (which is really what the Black is meant to represent, rather lazily). So it makes that accusation/question moot.

You'll find that they're not ashamed of it when you break it down (and those who throw that accusation/question around never do). They just don't want to be given that word as a label for who they are or a catch-all term for their identity.

What I don't get is the insistence for them to accept it. Comes across a bit "x supremacy" to me (and I'm not just talking about "white" supremacy. I include all kinds, western supremacy, whatever supremacy) and for them to accept what they've been given.

I don’t like this either. You know how you’d point out a white person by saying ‘the woman with the red coat’ or ‘the man with the curly hair’ perhaps. You most likely wouldn’t say ‘the white woman’ so why is ‘the black woman’ somehow default.

@SrownBkinGirl

Referring to someone as black or white isn’t racist!!

I agree. What I was pointing out is saying others who don't want to be called Black are ashamed of it. It always comes down to the question - what does being Black mean and where has anyone said they are ashamed of that?

On the contrary, people who're accused of being ashamed of Black are rather very proud of their cultural heritage and all it entails (which is really what the Black is meant to represent, rather lazily). So it makes that accusation/question moot.

You'll find that they're not ashamed of it when you break it down (and those who throw that accusation/question around never do). They just don't want to be given that word as a label for who they are or a catch-all term for their identity.

What I don't get is the insistence for them to accept it. Comes across a bit "x supremacy" to me (and I'm not just talking about "white" supremacy. I include all kinds, western supremacy, whatever supremacy) and for them to accept what they've been given.

🥱

@Hemingwayscats

I don’t like this either. You know how you’d point out a white person by saying ‘the woman with the red coat’ or ‘the man with the curly hair’ perhaps. You most likely wouldn’t say ‘the white woman’ so why is ‘the black woman’ somehow default.

That assumes you can see the person. In the example I provided, a friend was referring to another guest at my wedding they'd forgotten the name of. She tried brunette. Hundreds of guests. She tried brown eyed. Ditto. Gorgeous. Ditto. Neither of us could remember what she was wearing. Friend had straight hair instead of her usual braids or afro, so that didn't come up. We got there after a good ten minutes. I said, my mixed race friend. She immediately said yes. So instead of a nice conversation about how she enjoyed my friends company, it was made about race, uncomfortably so.

I think op is lacking in nuance and context here.

Typical of someone with no point to add and not willing to reason.

Take a nap if you're tired or bored.

Hemingwayscats

It isn’t though is it? If it were a white woman in a group of black men and women and two were carrying red bags you wouldn’t just say “the woman with the red bag”....would you?
Why try to think up extra descriptors to avoid using one that identifies the person immediately?
If it is a black woman in a group of men I would say “that woman” (which opens a whole other can of worms) however if it is a black woman in a group of other black women I would not use “that woman” and I certainly wouldn’t use “the black women” as neither uniquely identifies the woman in question.
There are two children in dd’s class at school who both have the same name. If one was “white” and the other “black” it would make no sense for her to describe the one she sits beside as “the one with dark hair and brown eyes” because they both have dark hair and brown eyes. She’d say the one with “brown skin” (because that’s a term she uses). As it happens they both have the same colour skin, so this is not an identifier between those two girls, and she doesn’t use it to describe which is which. She calls one “the new girl”.

Actually SrownBkinGirl, I did not address you in any way, you are the one who picked my statement "black is beautiful" out of this entire thread, and created an entire false narrative about me based on that one statement. Kind of like a person with prejudice would do. It was absolutely ridiculous to attack me over that statement. With all the injustice in the world, you're really going to go on a two hour rant at me because I dared say black is beautiful. Ok it's your energy, expend it however you wish. If you want to jump to conclusions and pretend I am someone I am not, and try to invent things I actually never said then suit yourself if it makes you feel better.

Stop lieing. Your post which you addressed to me has been deleted. You are ranting at me and don't seem to have read my post because again, it may have picked up part of your post but wasn't addressing you specifically or alone. It was addressing people who mentioned in their post that they aren't Black. Why you've taken it personally is your problem to deal with. Not mine.

Again, you seem overwrought and eager to paint a victim narrative yourself by doing exactly what you're accusing me of, including using buzzwords.

I posted a post. In that post, I also said those who are Black can choose what they want. If you are (you haven't mentioned yet), then that solves your problem. If not, my post applies to you too but I'm not accusing you of anything like you are. Calm down.

you're really going to go on a two hour rant at me

Really, hyperbole much? Forgot about you till you posted again addressing me. Two hour rant just because of 'poor, innocent you'. You wish.

Well you’re allowed to feel how you feel and others are allowed to disagree and continue as they are.

@ReturntoSpamfritters

There are no literally black or literally white people, or red or yellow. These are social constructs. Often used in pejorative ways. The range of colour in human skin tones is amazing.

www.demilked.com/skin-tones-pantone-colors-photos-humanae-angelica-dass/

Why use skin colour as the main descriptor at all?

How would you describe me if I was standing next to a bunch of white people and we all had similar hair and clothes etc?

Skin colour is a lot less incendiary than making a comment about the shape of my eyes!

Ethnicity isn't always the best way of differentiating between people. But it sometimes is, and people shouldn't be scared to use it.

That's your opinion. I disagree

SrownBkinGirl yes that's funny isn't it, all this time I've been on Mumsnet and it's the first time I've ever had a post of mine deleted, I have no idea why and quite honestly I don't care as I did not treat you in any way like you have treated me.

The reason I don't argue with all your "points" is like I said I had to stop reading halfway through because you were so wrong about so many things about me. To the point it would be like arguing with someone who wants to insist I am a unicorn when clearly I am not, but no amount of proof or validation will change your prejudice, so why bother. You will believe what you want regardless of what is true.

Describing someone you don’t personally know as ‘black’ ‘white’ is not racist.

Yeah OP is unhinged and comes across as just a little dim!

all this time I've been on Mumsnet and it's the first time I've ever had a post of mine deleted, I have no idea why

'Course you don't. Let me guess, you never see yourself or your actions, do you?

did not treat you in any way like you have treated me.
Yep. No you never. It's always the other person's fault.

The reason I don't argue with all your "points" is like I said I had to stop reading halfway through because you were so wrong about so many things about me

Let me fix that for you: "The reason I don't argue with your points is because I don't care to read them. So I have nothing to say about them. I just feel that mentioning something in my post (along with others' but it's all about me, you see) and challenging the point made in it is akin to murder. So I'm a victim now and you've made me feel bad and it's all your fault..."

To the point it would be like arguing with someone who wants to insist I am a unicorn when clearly I am not, but no amount of proof or validation will change your prejudice, so why bother

"...and i'll keep saying the word prejudice and hope it sticks even though when broken down to ask how exactly you've been prejudiced against me, you'll find I'm wrong... "

You will believe what you want regardless of what is true.
"...but I'm only looking in the mirror as I write so I could be talking to myself. This is exactly what I'm doing but I want to put it on you instead."

🙄 Honestly, I hope when you've taken time to digest these posts, you'll find that I said nothing about you that was wrong or accused you of anything or attacked you or treated you in anyway before your whole "Woe is me, I think I may have been attacked and I'll attack you in return then play innocent" charade started.

@Ragtag1999

So you have added another layer to enable offence to be taken by proxy. No offence but I am guessing you are white. Black – coloured – people of colour….. Who really gives a toss provided it is not from a bad place? If a black man is approaching me with a large knife or with drugs to sell me of course the first thing I notice is his colour. If it was a white man, approaching with aid and medicines in the middle of Nigeria his colour would be the primary identifier. Stop finding offence when it is not intended.

Interesting how the black man is a criminal and a threat and the white man is a saviour and benefactor.

I had to go back and read my post because I wanted to be sure what you're on about and why you've made my posts all about you.

I started that post with "it's easy for people to say..."

Then continued saying "It's easy for you to say..". Then carried on saying "you". By "you", I meant you in general, nor 'you' specifically. It would have been clear to any rational person.

Also I've said I responded only when someone else who already mentioned they weren't black quoted your post. I also had a similar discussion on this thread already with another pp (sensibly and amicably, I might add) so it really wasn't aimed at you but anyone else who thinks so. I also didn't assume the pp's race or mention yours. So if anything they should be the one going on like you but here you are.

Our posts are there to be read. If I fabricated anything, it's easy to find out. It's tedious carrying on with you now because you seem to be fixated on the perceived wrong done to you, rather than talk about what's been said. You still conveniently have nothing to say about it. Goodluck with that.

Interesting how the black man is a criminal and a threat and the white man is a saviour and benefactor.

I know! That is shocking to read. That's the black and white bias in full display.

fashionSOS
Hi. So you're talking about a hypothetical lineup, where you're one of many similar women in uniform and you are all the same height, all the same weight, all have glasses (or not), you all have the same coloured eyes and type and colour and style of hair? You don't have numbers or name tags or earrings or jewellery?
May I suggest this is not a very likely scenario?

@SrownBkinGirl

Interesting how the black man is a criminal and a threat and the white man is a saviour and benefactor.

I know! That is shocking to read. That's the black and white bias in full display.

Especially when it's used so casually and people actually think it makes a point about not being racist/offensive/biased.

You can choose what you want people to refer to you as, what terms you want them to use...

But until you've spoken to them and explained this, how the hell are they to know, telepathy?

If they refer to you using a term that up to now, no one else has had a problem with, and YOU choose to be vile to them about it, it really is you that has a problem, not them.

I am often described as 'the fat one' and 'the one in a wheelchair' and both those descriptors are true. No one I personally know and call a friend would use that first one unless they absolutely had to (lets say im in a room full of other female, curly haired, wheelchair using people with tattoos, all wearing the same clothing as me.. unlikely).

People who know me know I couldn't give a shit about the latter descriptor, i AM in a wheelchair, it is quite large and quite obvious, most people are not in a wheelchair, it is therefore a useful way to differentiate me from all the other people.

But if I decide that I now want total strangers to refer to me as the 'wheel powered pan lass'... by all means I can ask people to do that... I cannot get pissy when strangers do not correctly guess that thats what I want them to use!

What would I achieve if I did... likely they would just avoid people in wheelchairs for fear of getting it wrong.