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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stop teaching child that it’s okay to refer to someone’s skin colour

707 replies

CannotThinkOfName · 26/10/2021 17:39

Calling someone - a random person you don’t know - black is racist. I don’t care if your personal friend or your family member or someone else you’re close to doesn’t mind being referred to like this because they’re speaking for themselves as individuals.

Pointing out someone by skin colour is rude at best and at worst a form of racism. This is because

  1. Skin colour that I was born with is brown.
  2. Skin colour that I was born with does not define anyone. It doesn’t define your traits, characteristics, hobbies, goals, ambitions or anything else that truly defines who a person is.
  3. It’s a form of racial harassment to start bothering someone at random and bringing up their race and colour for no real reason and singling them out by it.

I’ve seen people say there’s nothing wrong with their child referring to people by skin because they are just “saying what they see”. This is wrong because as a child, I never ever saw myself as “black” or described myself “black”. This is taught as a way to refer to people, it’s not simply a child “saying what they see”.

Please stop teaching your child that it’s okay to refer to people that you don’t know this way. If you do know someone and they’ve told you to call them black then that’s their choice as an individual. They don’t speak for anyone else but themselves.

If you don’t know someone’s name, - just ask them what their name is and call them by their actual name. Not “that black girl” or “the black woman” or “that black lady”.

OP posts:
SrownBkinGirl · 28/10/2021 00:30

I suppose you'd be right if you think this thread was started because of that thread. I don't think it was but I don't know.

Also, I've glanced at the OP's posts and from what I can see, OP doesn't mind being described by literal skin colour, brown.
OP doesn't mind being referred to as dark-skinned.
OP doesn't mind being referred to as someone of African descent.

This is based on the OP's posts in reply to some posts. If I'm wrong, OP can correct me.

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 28/10/2021 00:36

@SrownBkinGirl

I suppose you'd be right if you think this thread was started because of that thread. I don't think it was but I don't know.

Also, I've glanced at the OP's posts and from what I can see, OP doesn't mind being described by literal skin colour, brown.
OP doesn't mind being referred to as dark-skinned.
OP doesn't mind being referred to as someone of African descent.

This is based on the OP's posts in reply to some posts. If I'm wrong, OP can correct me.

I think we just see things very differently. I did enjoy reading your posts though(even if it might not seem so) and I hope I haven't upset/offended you.

I don't think we'll reach a consensus on this . Thanks

CannotThinkOfName · 28/10/2021 00:39

@SrownBkinGirl

I suppose you'd be right if you think this thread was started because of that thread. I don't think it was but I don't know.

Also, I've glanced at the OP's posts and from what I can see, OP doesn't mind being described by literal skin colour, brown.
OP doesn't mind being referred to as dark-skinned.
OP doesn't mind being referred to as someone of African descent.

This is based on the OP's posts in reply to some posts. If I'm wrong, OP can correct me.

Hi, no, you’re not wrong at all
OP posts:
CannotThinkOfName · 28/10/2021 00:41

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CannotThinkOfName · 28/10/2021 00:43

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SrownBkinGirl · 28/10/2021 00:45

Not at all. No offence taken. We've had a good conversation. Flowers

I actually felt we were agreeing in some ways but may be coming from different angles, just that the OP needs to confirm the questions you asked or the answer I gave. Well, she doesn't "need" to but the confirmation is what's holding our agreement. Either way, I'm happy with our conversation.

SrownBkinGirl · 28/10/2021 00:46

Sorry that was to you @AccidentallyOnPurpose

And I've just crossposted with the OP. Thanks OP for confirming.

chocolatecerealcampingbrekkie · 28/10/2021 00:46

Oh not this again....

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 28/10/2021 00:51

@SrownBkinGirl

Sorry that was to you *@AccidentallyOnPurpose*

And I've just crossposted with the OP. Thanks OP for confirming.

You win.Grin I actually see OP's point( or at least her request is more reasonable and definitely achievable)now that she confirmed .

Need to remind myself to be less cynical.

CannotThinkOfName · 28/10/2021 00:52

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SrownBkinGirl · 28/10/2021 01:01

@AccidentallyOnPurpose Ooh I have an "I win" dance!💃🏽 Grin

A little cynicism doesn't hurt as long as it's tempered with the ability to look beyond that point of view and I think you showed that very well by wanting to understand even when you disagreed. Not to mention conceding when you understood. Takes some maturity and wisdom.Flowers Not trying to sound patronising at all. I learn more from people you.

SrownBkinGirl · 28/10/2021 01:02

Ooh I think that last sentence sounded bad! Sorry...I hope you know what I meant. Wise and mature people...

SrownBkinGirl · 28/10/2021 01:03

People like you. Sorry.

Unreasonabubble · 28/10/2021 01:12

@CannotThinkOfName 1. Skin colour that I was born with is brown.

Then PLEASE let the 25-30 year olds know that. I get slaughtered by my children if I refer to someone as being "brown!". I am only allowed to refer to them as being "black".

OrganicMooMoo · 28/10/2021 01:17

To avoid this, it’s better to learn to use something like their actual given name.

So if I am pointing someone out to a new colleague and say “There’s Fred!” and Fred is standing in a group of people, and the new colleague asks which one is Fred?” I can just say “Fred is Fred” and they’ll know which person I mean? Their name is not a visual descriptor. The white guy leaning on the table is Fred. Or just the guy leaning on the table, if only one person is. Or the black guy in a red hat is Fred. Or the guy in the red hat, if only one person is. But how can you suggest we replace their colour with their name when trying to point them out to someone else?
If someone runs off with your handbag and you have to describe them to the police, you don’t first track them down to ask their name for fear of offending them by describing their hair, eye or skin colour! “Officer, someone stole my bag!” “Can you describe them?” “Yes, it was a person called Fred”. “What did they look like?” “Someone called Fred”....
What nonsense!

Livelovebehappy · 28/10/2021 01:19

To say you don’t want to be referred to as black is indicating you are offended,, when in fact you should be proud to be black and not class the label as an insult.

Hottbutterscotch · 28/10/2021 01:27

@MarshmallowSwede

This is good advice to have. Thank you. I have a close friend who has a daughter who is half Swedish and half African so I do my best to learn about this. It’s always good to have information about things one might do unconsciously in order to break habits that while we as white people might not think anything about, we might want to see it from the other perspective.

Also, the people who aren’t actually reading what you wrote and arguing why they think it is ok is especially pathetic. She’s telling you why you shouldn’t do it.. and you’re arguing why you think it’s acceptable.

I’m embarrassed for you. Sometimes when people of colour tell you something is offensive, instead of arguing why you should keep doing or saying what offends them, you could actually take some time to examine from their perspective and listen.

@MarshmallowSwede no this is definitely not advice you should be taking. It’s advice no one in their right mind should be taking let alone being embarrassed not to. There’s a wealth of constructive information available to you. This is not it.
Hottbutterscotch · 28/10/2021 01:50

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fashionSOS · 28/10/2021 02:15

@Ciaobaby92

The only thing that's racist is the belief that being called black is a negative thing when it's not. I personally believe black is beautiful. I think the real issue is you need to be comfortable in your own skin.
This. I'm not black, but I have no issues with people trying to identify me based on my non-white appearance, because it is how I look, and I'm not ashamed to be Chinese. It makes me me.

I will admit the term Asian gets my back up, unless it's uttered by an American (in which case, I know it's meant correctly), but I'm happiest with Chinese and I'll accept East Asian (it's easier than narrowing down which type of East Asian if you don't have a lot of experience in being around different ethnicities). I'm not fond of BAME because it makes me feel othered, but fine, I know it really just means non-white and some white people have a problem with saying non-white because they worry they'll offend someone.

I will accept being called the wrong type of East Asian if there was no malice involved. As other posters have said, it's not necessarily a big deal, you just calmly and quietly correct the person and move on. As long as they move on with you, no harm done.

I went to a very white school. There were no other Chinese people. If someone with a similar background thought I was Korean, of course I'd forgive them instantly, because how would they know better? They haven't had exposure to diversity and by meeting me, they're starting to widen their world. If I shout at them about getting things wrong, that just makes them less inclined to talk to people who don't look like them.

As I've said before, and I will say again as the OP hasn't acknowledged this and I think it's a point worth making: if you have lived experience of racism, it's very easy to tell the difference between someone with malicious intent and someone trying their best. And if you don't have lived experience of racism, you're bloody lucky.

People describing me by the colour of my skin or the shape of my eyes to differentiate me from a bunch of white people in a predominantly white environment is no big deal.

I mean, I'd rather be the Chinese lady with the short hair than the fat one. As far as factual descriptors go, there are far worse ones than ethnicity!

As far as colours go: yeah, I do use the colour yellow personally. But that's in the context of me reclaiming the word, and I wouldn't really accept it from anyone who wasn't East Asian. Asian at a push. For some reason, white and black have no negative connotations in this country, but both yellow and brown do. I know plenty of Indians who are trying to reclaim brown. We don't typically share our colours - they don't typically call me yellow, and I don't typically call them brown. Although we have a similar fight in some ways, it's still not the same one, and it's more respectful to keep our own colour reclamation projects separate.

But Chinese? East Asian? Not offensive in the slightest. You can all use my race to describe me without causing offence to any reasonable person.

SrownBkinGirl · 28/10/2021 02:50

It's easy for people to say accept being called Black when they aren't Black, meanwhile they hate being called something they're actually part of.

It's easy for you to say Black isn't a negative when you're not the one who's constantly reading or hearing people use the word Black as part of a negative thing in everyday conversations:

*Black sheep of the family

  • Blackmail
  • Black cloud
  • Black Sunday
  • Black mood
  • Black heart
  • Black market
  • The black cat/dog curse
  • Blackening someone's name... *Blacklist *Black soul *Blackballed *Black death *Pot calling the kettle Black *Black as sin, etc.

Even 'dark' is still used in a similar way but don't have as many words.

(Acknowledging @Blackisblackisblack because I stole part of this from you. Thanks for it.)

As a non-Black person, you don't know how it feels to see these things and be reminded that you're a Black person. No, to you, it's fine, it's all innocent, it's just a coincidence, doesn't mean anything. Actually, you don't even think about this because you rarely notice it. Why would you?

As a non-Black person, you give the platitude Black is beautiful, be proud of being Black (whatever the hell that means), yet on the other hand, you'll use Black as the opposite of beauty and white in the opposite way: white lie, white feather, white Knight, etc. Yes, it's so great. Why don't we switch colours?Hmm

I don't think a non-Black person should be telling a Black person the label they should or shouldn't accept. It's not up to you because you're not the one sharing the label with most things considered bad or evil. Even angels are all dressed in white. White is used as the symbol of purity, innocence, etc. Black is used as the symbol of doom, hell, Satan, demons, horror, etc.

I love the colour Black as a colour, it's one of my favourite colours to wear (I also have black hair) but please don't come into this conversation as a non-Black person essentially telling the people labelled "Black people" to suck it up and like it. If a Black person wants to be called Black, that's great. Nothing wrong with it.

wombat1a · 28/10/2021 03:07

Alot of that depends on where you are, DH and I are always being referred to as the 'white woman' & 'white man' since our skin colour is less common here than another one.

I don't find it racist at all and neither does DH, it is an easy way of identifying us in a group of other people.

Blackisblackisblack · 28/10/2021 04:38

SrownBkinGirl, you're welcome.

Smallkeys · 28/10/2021 07:32

@fashionSOS that was a great post from another perspective.

TirednWorried · 28/10/2021 07:40

@fashionSOS do what descriptor DO you want? Non-white and coloured are considered nonPC now, and we were told 'black' was the acceptable adjective. Now that is problematic? I dont want to gove offence by saying the wrong word, so please let us know how you wish to be described

Mrbob · 28/10/2021 07:52

I genuinely don't understand what the issue is if someone is using it as a descriptor. If I work somewhere where there are a huge range of races (as I do) and someone says "which doctor is Steve?" I will say "the white guy, British, brown hair, blue scrubs, short" or "he is Asian, Australian, black hair, jeans, slim" or whatever the clearest way of explaining is. I can spend 10 minutes describing that he has a certain pair of shoes on but I have things to do. Its not a negative or a positive- its a description. The problem surely comes with seeing it as a negative?!