Stop teaching child that it’s okay to refer to someone’s skin colour

[CannotThinkOfName]

Calling someone - a random person you don’t know - black is racist. I don’t care if your personal friend or your family member or someone else you’re close to doesn’t mind being referred to like this because they’re speaking for themselves as individuals.

Pointing out someone by skin colour is rude at best and at worst a form of racism. This is because

1. Skin colour that I was born with is brown.
2. Skin colour that I was born with does not define anyone. It doesn’t define your traits, characteristics, hobbies, goals, ambitions or anything else that truly defines who a person is.
3. It’s a form of racial harassment to start bothering someone at random and bringing up their race and colour for no real reason and singling them out by it.

I’ve seen people say there’s nothing wrong with their child referring to people by skin because they are just “saying what they see”. This is wrong because as a child, I never ever saw myself as “black” or described myself “black”. This is taught as a way to refer to people, it’s not simply a child “saying what they see”.

Please stop teaching your child that it’s okay to refer to people that you don’t know this way. If you do know someone and they’ve told you to call them black then that’s their choice as an individual. They don’t speak for anyone else but themselves.

If you don’t know someone’s name, - just ask them what their name is and call them by their actual name. Not “that black girl” or “the black woman” or “that black lady”.

Racist is, etymologically speaking, to put race at the heart of the discourse, to see it as a defining factor, as the most important defining factor when considering differences in people.
Describing the colour of someone's skin is not racist. It is just describing the colour of someone's skin. In some context it can an element indicating racism. But on its own no it is not racist. We all describe people based on their visible characteristics and black/brown/white is one of them. Big, small, strong, short, tall, heavy build, slim are other factual descriptions.
When people cannot remember my name they sometimes refer to me as the lady with the accent (i have a non British accent and I mostly work on the phone so my accent/voice is an easy defining factor). That isn't racist either. It is factual.
Asking me if I've had a good time 'at home' whenever i go to my country of birth for holidays however, that does grate me and could be seen as having some racist undertones as it suggests that i wouldn't have my home here. But again it doesn't make the people racist. Just clumsy.

Tbh, I didn't care about this sort of thing until I found myself trying to explain to my 5/6 year old that he is black (with two black parents). He got quite heated about it, as he's obviously not the colour black but there I was trying to explain myself. One day he'll understand that he is 'black', and 'brown' means a whole different thing. It's quite sad when it's your own kid making you question what you've previously had no issue with.

@Pontypandytaxpayer

We never really hear from people with views like mine so it’s important for me to share this to inform people that there are people who don’t like being called black and only want to be called by their name.

But has anyone who knows your name actually referred to you directly as 'black'? I can't imagine this situation.

It’s actually has happened to me and does happen. It might be hard for you to believe but many people feel like bringing up someone’s race for no reason (not giving a police report) is completely acceptable.

Children will do that to you @JayDot500 . I know mine have opened my eyes/mind to so many things I just went along with without critically thinking and questioning and like you, this is one of them. It's through "batshit" discussions like this that the term coloured, etc have changed. Always "batshit" with the ones who start out.

I feel like this is just a repeat of last week's thread (maybe 2 week's ago?)

Who's Ella?
The black one. The black lady. The dark one. The brown one. - Big fat no!

Who's Ella?
She's over there, short, black, long curly hair, wearing a big jumper... - Fine.

Context is everything.

@secular39

Seriously. This is a non issue and I would have no problem of someone referring me to my race.

I bet you're white.

You don't feel the same when your local Facebook group is littered with reports of 'suspicious looking black man'. White people are rarely mentioned in these posts, they don't draw the same attention unless they're behaving in an incredibly unnaturally way or have an extremely unusual appearance.

Black people are seen as suspicious for just walking.

I've not read all the comments, so apologies if I'm repeating.

My son is 4, he commented the other day when at the park look at the squirrel mummy, I said where, he said by the man with brown skin. I was surprised by what he'd said as he'd never used someone's skin colour to describe someone before. I was left thinking should I say to him not to comment like this, I've decided no i shouldn't he was right, and purely describing what he saw. Surely me telling him not to talk about someone's skin is making more of an issue out if it?

@MumOfBoys16 out of interest how would you have described the man to your child if your child had asked you where the squirrel was? Before this thread I hadn't really thought about it but I wouldn't have described him as a black man to my child as there is no need, just simply said next to that man. But I think for some adults they always see colour so would say black man when there's no need which in my opinion is wrong.

OP, can you give us an actual example where someone brings up your being black, or refers to you as black rather than by your name.
most of us cannot imagine this scenario.
you say you are not talking about where one has to identify someone to a person who does not know their name.
so if it's not used as a distinguishing descriptor, how do people refer to you being black when talking to you.
not doubting your experience, but we can't quite grasp it.
sounds like something that might have happened 50 years ago ?
do you live on a very remote scottish island, or somewhere where they have never met a non-white person.

I got accused of being racist once years ago for confirming the lady my manager and l were talking about was the black lady at another site, totally confused me at the time because had she had blond hair, wore glasses, was tall, young or French for example, l would have said that.
So where l am at now is that l would use any other adjective under the sun to describe to someone other than black because the last thing l would want to do is upset anyone or be branded a racist simply for saying it - even though she was the only black lady there so it quickly sorted out who we were talking about. No l wouldn't describe her white colleagues by their skin colour because that wouldn't have helped as the others in that small office were all white. If someone was the only white person in am office of black people then yes l would describe them as being white.
From my understanding of it, l think now this is probably not the right thing to do and l should ask someone how they wish to be described which l couldn't have done because she wasn't there and wouldn't know we were talking about her (in a professional capacity l mean, Manager was asking me what her job title was).
So now l just panic about this type of conversation as l don't want to say the wrong thing and cause offence.
Am getting new neighbours soon and the old ones have told me they are an ethnic family...almost as if they wanted to prepare me! Genuinely couldn't give a stuff what colour their skin is and l will take them a bottle of wine round when they move in to welcome them to the road as l did the white couple who recently moved in too.
If l hear anyone saying anything racist l will absolutely pull them up on it, same as if they are being sexist or ageist but sorry, l think context is everything in this scenario.

@MolyHolyGuacamole

I'm black with mixed raced children. Funny how that every black person does not think like you.

I was left thinking should I say to him not to comment like this, I've decided no i shouldn't he was right, and purely describing what he saw

Well that's not strictly true is it? We all see lots of things every day which we know not to comment on. For example, if I pop to our local shop with my dd, I may say to her "give your items to the man" when we're paying...I don't say "give your items to the tall, Indian man". He is tall and he is Indian so yes, it would be factual but it would be seen as rude and unnecessary.

@Dillydollydingdong

I would have thought a black person would be proud of being black. So why is it a problem if you are described as black? Black pride? (Not trying to be goady).

I am happy with who I am but it doesn’t define me.

You and I both know the reason why Lupita and Chimamanda didn’t know they were black until they left Africa has nothing to do with African Americans and everything to do with the fact the black is a term invented by people from outside Africa to describe people of African descent. The only reason it became acceptable to use was because African Americans said it was (because they are not aware of their actual ethnic heritage anymore) and people in all western countries adopted it.

Ok, so then why don’t south Asians become black and African (including Afro Caribbean and African Americans) become people of African origin. Who gets to dictate that only people of African descent should be called black and every other ethnicity should be known by their ethnicity or nationality? Why can Asians be Asian but Imustbe black because someone else said so?

Completely understand this and agree. I think the first one runs parallel with the post you were replying to, in that both are true.

[quote secular39]@MolyHolyGuacamole

I'm black with mixed raced children. Funny how that every black person does not think like you.[/quote]
So you're okay with the descriptor of race being used only to highlight negative activity? As my comment ties in to the broader situation of how being described by race is used and the impact it has on many black people.

Being happy to be referred by your race isn't a stand alone situation, surely you can see how context is key.

I have olive skin and have been asked all through my life if I've just been on holiday, no i say. Oh have you been on the sunbed? No. I say. They rarely say anything after that. This I do find rude, because they are asking me why I am the colour I am! But if someone had to describe me to someone else I am fine with them using the colour of my skin, because why wouldn't they?

@MumOfBoys16 I think that's fine to do but some don't. So...🤷🏽‍♀️

Chinese, Spanish and Indian are all nationalities

I think I misunderstood you. I would really try not to describe people by nationality as it doesn't tell you anything about what they look like.

That is, if we are trying to describe how people appear anyway.

You did and so did about 3 other posters.

It's alright.

Genuine question. Imagine you're in a room with one black person and 15 white. The black person is a woman, there are 7 other women. She has glasses on, and a blue top, as does another woman. How would you describe her if you were telling someone that that needed to speak to her? Is saying the black lady any different from saying the man with the ginger beard or the lady with grey hair?

But there are societally agreed upon terms we use to describe peoples appearance, white and black being the two most obvious.

White people aren't actually white, they're peach. Black people are a variety of shade of brown. And don't get me started on the coopting of Asian and South Asian and Hispanic and Polynesian etc people in to the "black" grouping. I'm not black. I think black v white as binary is wrong, but grouping me with people of similar ethnic heritage is not wrong.

Do you prefer 'coloured'?

I'd rather someone point out the blatantly obvious about me when describing me than skirt around my ethnicity in a bid not to offend. And if that means using the societally accepted grouping, so be it.

Slightly at a tangent but the thread got me thinking about the concept of whiteness and when it arose. Reading a great article which includes the quote I’d never read before - In the words of Eric Williams, a historian who later became the first prime minister of Trinidad and Tobago, “slavery was not born of racism: rather, racism was the consequence of slavery”.
Although I don’t agree with the op’s premise it’s been thought provoking re imposed descriptors and where they come from and why.

@MumOfBoys16 I meant I think what your son said is fine. Not sure if it was clear what I was agreeing to.