Stop teaching child that it’s okay to refer to someone’s skin colour

[CannotThinkOfName]

Calling someone - a random person you don’t know - black is racist. I don’t care if your personal friend or your family member or someone else you’re close to doesn’t mind being referred to like this because they’re speaking for themselves as individuals.

Pointing out someone by skin colour is rude at best and at worst a form of racism. This is because

1. Skin colour that I was born with is brown.
2. Skin colour that I was born with does not define anyone. It doesn’t define your traits, characteristics, hobbies, goals, ambitions or anything else that truly defines who a person is.
3. It’s a form of racial harassment to start bothering someone at random and bringing up their race and colour for no real reason and singling them out by it.

I’ve seen people say there’s nothing wrong with their child referring to people by skin because they are just “saying what they see”. This is wrong because as a child, I never ever saw myself as “black” or described myself “black”. This is taught as a way to refer to people, it’s not simply a child “saying what they see”.

Please stop teaching your child that it’s okay to refer to people that you don’t know this way. If you do know someone and they’ve told you to call them black then that’s their choice as an individual. They don’t speak for anyone else but themselves.

If you don’t know someone’s name, - just ask them what their name is and call them by their actual name. Not “that black girl” or “the black woman” or “that black lady”.

Literally every black person I've ever spoken to is fine being referred to as black. How can stating a physical characteristic in a non derogatory manner be racist?

@Wingingitsince2018

I had a recent experience in the playground with DS, who is 3, with this recently.

He said 'I want to play with the black boy' when referring to a child he had played with earlier, who was black and was also wearing a black coat. DS also referred to a white girl as the 'red girl' as she was wearing red earlier in the day.

I instinctively pulled him aside and mentioned how it isnt nice to comment on skin colour and if he comments on clothing colour he should name the item of clothing too, and suggest he asked the boy what his name was.

However, I can't help but feel I might just raised his attention to the boys skin tone. I feel it is right to teach him not to focus on skin colour but that also acknowledge it isn't right to be 'colourblind' all the time.

this is interesting. one of my SIL's has the same first name as me so we are both let's say "Auntie Sophie". she's a blonde, I'm a brunette. At one family gathering we were sitting next to each other when our little nephew was talking about her to his mum, but using her name to describe her wasn't enough so he said "I mean Pink Sophie, not Black Sophie!". We were all none the wiser until we realised he was referring to the colour of the cardigans we were wearing! 🤣 (we are both white)

Thought provoking discussion. I've never had my children describe someone through skin colour so not sure what my reaction would have been so it's good to have this conversation.

Honestly, here context is everything.

"Who is Ella?"
"Ella is the black woman with long hair over there by the water cooler."
Fine if Ella is with four other white colleagues by the water cooler, surely?
Not OK if Ella is the only person standing next to the water cooler.

As a descriptive term I can't see how it would offend.

Just as if necessary, I would describe someone as white, tanned or blonde etc.

@MolyHolyGuacamole

Of course, context is everything.

[quote CannotThinkOfName]@LolaSmiles if it’s directed towards me, I have the right to state what language I find acceptable or not.

@fulanigirl, I noticed you didn’t answer my question. Is black the way your Fulani ancestors referred to themselves, or is it a term your learned to call yourself and from whom did this term come from and for what purpose was it used to define Africans. You and I both know the reason why Lupita and Chimamanda didn’t know they were black until they left Africa has nothing to do with African Americans and everything to do with the fact the black is a term invented by people from outside Africa to describe people of African descent. The only reason it became acceptable to use was because African Americans said it was (because they are not aware of their actual ethnic heritage anymore) and people in all western countries adopted it.[/quote]
My Fulani ancestors would not need to describe themselves as black amongst other fulanis. But a white person in a Fulani setting would be called white or the equivalent in Fulani because they are and it is not racist! Use your common sense. I am very much African, spent a big chunk of my childhood there and go regularly, we will describe a white person as being white when surrounded by other Africans. Is someone meant to look at me, automatically describe me as the Fulani girl without knowing anything about me?

Again you are speaking for me. No Lupita and Chimamanda didn’t know they were black until going to America because they are surrounded by mostly black people! Being black in Africa is not the same as being black in America. Lupita will describe herself as a Kenyan, she knows she’s Kenyan. What is Gabrielle Union going to say? Do you feel entitled to tell an entire group of people that are proud of who they are wrong because you have a problem with who you are?

You also didn’t answer my question as to why you see the word black to be the same as b*tch.

@StepAwayFromGoogling

Honestly, here context is everything.

"Who is Ella?"
"Ella is the black woman with long hair over there by the water cooler."
Fine if Ella is with four other white colleagues by the water cooler, surely?
Not OK if Ella is the only person standing next to the water cooler.

Honestly I don't know how many adjectives it takes to transition from offensive to accurate description. I'd probably be OK with that. I fine black being the only descriptor offensive because to me that says you can't see past the colour of my skin. There are plenty of other things that make me stand out (height, or lack of it, being the main one) but still 9 times out of 10 'black' is how people describe me. More so since I moved away from London. In London it was probably more 5 or 6 times out of 10.

@StepAwayFromGoogling

Honestly, here context is everything.

"Who is Ella?"
"Ella is the black woman with long hair over there by the water cooler."
Fine if Ella is with four other white colleagues by the water cooler, surely?
Not OK if Ella is the only person standing next to the water cooler.

Indeed. And if Ella was standing by the water cooler with three others with the same skin colour, the description of ‘black’ would be completely redundant. Context is key. Description is based on point of difference.

I didn't teach my child about skin colour at all when she first mentioned it, but they start to recognise the differences themselves. I remember she was about 4, came home and said that "so-and-so has light skin, like me, and so-and-so and so-and-so have brown skin" and there was nothing more too it. In her mind, it wasn't any different to the times she's told me someone has blue eyes like her and someone else has brown eyes, or X and Y both have orange hair.

I suppose telling her "yes, you have white skin and they have black skin" would reinforce the race concept, whereas she was just commenting on actual skin colours. She didn't really have a word for her skin (she just said "light") so I said "well, it's sort of peach?".

I didn't tell her the word "ginger" when she mentioned the orange-haired children either, as that can have its own negative connotations, although I'm sure she will learn it elsewhere.

@SrownBkinGirl

Do you have an issue with who you are?

Cmon, this is a tired line at this point. As a Fulani (I assume by your name) girl, I'm sure you know 'Black' isn't "who you are" or who your ancestors are (What does that even mean?) but it's fine if it's who you identify as.

The only reason I say that is because OP compared the term black to b*tch. One is clearly and insult and the other is descriptive. Why would your mind even go there unless you think it's dirty.

@MolyHolyGuacamole

You would hear 'the white lady' as a descriptor in a room full of black ladies though?

And how often will this happen though?

It is correct that white is considered the default, read any book. Characters are mentioned by their hair or eye colour only when they're white, but someone from an ethnic minority would have it spelled out or have an ethnic name.

Or the number of times I've heard someone comment on a white person's partner 'oh I wasn't expecting them to be (insert ethnic minority)' because the person in question is white. And yes it could happen the other way around too but seeing as 86% of the population is white, this is the context in all of the times I've heard it mentioned.

It happens, go to an African country, that person would be described as white.

My daughter (9) always talks about people’s skin tones. Eg, the one with “the lighter skin tone” or “the darker skin tone” if deceiving two people. I am not sure what everyone thinks about this but it sounds nice when she says it.

It happens, go to an African country, that person would be described as white.

This isn't an African country. My point that white is the default still stands.

Tiring. Basically anyone can be offended about anything these days. Really sick of walking on eggshells. Best continue socialising in my microcosm.

White! OP is being ridiculous. I'm a black African and the OP does not speak for me. Why is it wrong to acknowledge race? I am who I am and I am proud and absolutely love it

@fulanigirl

You sound like someone I’d really get on with! 🙌

@fulanigirl I’m not “proud to be black” because black means nothing to me. I don’t agree with racial label so it’s not relevant to me or my life. No one in Africa called themselves black - because it’s a term that didn’t exist, think about why the term black came to be used

@fulanigirl black is also used as an insult yet you say you’re proud to be called black. b-tch is used as a term of endearment amongst some women yet you seem offended by it. Interesting.

@StepAwayFromGoogling

Honestly, here context is everything.

"Who is Ella?"
"Ella is the black woman with long hair over there by the water cooler."
Fine if Ella is with four other white colleagues by the water cooler, surely?
Not OK if Ella is the only person standing next to the water cooler.

Exactly! Context is everything, but you can't just say someone is racist for calling me black. I'm black, no one should call me brown or pretend I'm not like it's a problem.

@MolyHolyGuacamole

It happens, go to an African country, that person would be described as white.

This isn't an African country. My point that white is the default still stands.

Okay I'll give you a real life example. We constantly have parties for Africans and you will have white guests. If no one knows your name, and they need to describe you, your race will come up! Are we racist?

No one in Africa called themselves black - because it’s a term that didn’t exist, think about why the term black came to be used

Genuine question. Does any group refer to themselves as a term when they do not know anybody outside the group? For example, if a nation only ever had people with blonde hair in it, and they weren't aware other hair colours existed, would they refer to themselves as blonde? They probably wouldn't because having light yellow hair would just be the norm. Would people in Africa prior to colonization have referred to themselves as brown-skinned (as opposed to black)? Or would skin colour just not have been a thing at all?

I think when we start to encounter people who look different to us (a lot taller, red hair, or skin that seems white for example) that's when we start making these types of distinctions. A short nation wouldn't view themselves as short until meeting a taller nation?

Is it that black is not a true descriptor as the skin is not actually black, so would things like brown-skinned and peach-skinned ever be OK to describe people?

[quote CannotThinkOfName]@fulanigirl black is also used as an insult yet you say you’re proud to be called black. b-tch is used as a term of endearment amongst some women yet you seem offended by it. Interesting.[/quote]
You and I both know if a stranger referred to you as a female dog you'd be offended! However a stranger describing me as black to identify me, why would I be offended? If you are insulting me, of course I'll be offended! But you cannot take a word that many people prefer without any context and make it dirty.

I'm entitled to my view and you are entitled to yours. You do not speak for me, just like I don't for you.

@fulanigirl Here are some more people of African descent who also don’t want to be called black. You don’t mind being called black but you have zero right to act like we all want or accept being called black.

www.trtworld.com/opinion/should-the-term-black-to-describe-people-of-african-origin-be-retired-29105/amp

m.youtube.com/watch?v=-_oUjOZupX8

[quote CannotThinkOfName]@fulanigirl Here are some more people of African descent who also don’t want to be called black. You don’t mind being called black but you have zero right to act like we all want or accept being called black.

www.trtworld.com/opinion/should-the-term-black-to-describe-people-of-african-origin-be-retired-29105/amp

m.youtube.com/watch?v=-_oUjOZupX8[/quote]
Like I've been saying, you also don't have any right to say I can't! Why can't you see that? You and I do not speak for the entire race.

@fulanigirl I can’t quote you but what if I told you I wouldn’t be offended at all of someone referred to me as b-tch? Can I then say you’re ridiculous for saying that you’re offended? This is what you’re currently doing with me