Stop teaching child that it’s okay to refer to someone’s skin colour

[CannotThinkOfName]

Calling someone - a random person you don’t know - black is racist. I don’t care if your personal friend or your family member or someone else you’re close to doesn’t mind being referred to like this because they’re speaking for themselves as individuals.

Pointing out someone by skin colour is rude at best and at worst a form of racism. This is because

1. Skin colour that I was born with is brown.
2. Skin colour that I was born with does not define anyone. It doesn’t define your traits, characteristics, hobbies, goals, ambitions or anything else that truly defines who a person is.
3. It’s a form of racial harassment to start bothering someone at random and bringing up their race and colour for no real reason and singling them out by it.

I’ve seen people say there’s nothing wrong with their child referring to people by skin because they are just “saying what they see”. This is wrong because as a child, I never ever saw myself as “black” or described myself “black”. This is taught as a way to refer to people, it’s not simply a child “saying what they see”.

Please stop teaching your child that it’s okay to refer to people that you don’t know this way. If you do know someone and they’ve told you to call them black then that’s their choice as an individual. They don’t speak for anyone else but themselves.

If you don’t know someone’s name, - just ask them what their name is and call them by their actual name. Not “that black girl” or “the black woman” or “that black lady”.

So my DH is Indian with brown skin and I am British with white skin. My DD was hugely curious about skin and eye colour as a child and always use to ask why Daddy was brown and I was "pink" as she saw it and she was neither. This continued into a greater awareness and lots of comments about other skin colours that she observed. A lot of explaining went into explaining why people from India have darker skin that people from the UK as well as explaining that you don't refer to peoples skin colour.

However, at times you do need to describe people and these descriptions may well involve skin colour which to me as a descriptive use, would be the same as eye colour, hair colour, clothing etc. I can see how referring to someone you know and you know their name etc as "the black lady" may be deemed racist but not as a purely descriptive means of identifying someone who you do not know.

@marykitty

It cannot really compare probably but I lost count how many time I was referred to as "the latina". Second place for "the short girl".

It absolutely does not bother me.
I mean, even if they describe me as "the girl with the red jumper", as soon as they lay eyes on me they see how I look like...

Well here is where I'm gonna agree with the OP; I'd find it HIGHLY offensive to be referred to as 'the black girl'. Good for you that you don't.

@Franklin12

The op clearly has a lot of time on their hands to get frothy about something that isn’t really an issue. Are they saying that you cannot describe someone as black?

So consequently if the person was white you couldn’t use that either??

So if you got mugged by a white person god forbid you use their colour as an explanation to the police.

If it’s not really an issue then there’s no need to point out my skin colour at all.

To answer your question, white people are rarely referred to as white. The police report example (which is a rare occurrence for most people) that keeps being brought up over and over again, just shows how rarely a white persons race is brought up.

I'm white and dh is black. Let's say we were out socialising and someone said to me at a party which one is your husband whilst gesturing to a group of men...I think it would be fine to say, the black guy with the white shirt. What wouldn't be acceptable if I was invited to a party and the host said to me, is your black husband coming too? That's the difference for me.

@AssemblySquare

OP you find it racist and have acknowledged that there are people who don’t. Therefore by your own logic it is not racist and you cannot speak for all people!

That's exactly what I thought.

And it's used in everyday descriptions. Especially in places like the police force.

What's the point of searching for "male or female" assuming no one then gets offended we are assuming their gender (!) if we don't or are being wrong in some way add details like bears, glasses, skin colour etc.

I do agree how and where it's used is important. But using it as descriptor where it helps identify is surely the correct use?

*We never really hear from people with views like mine so it’s important for me to share this to inform people that there are people who don’t like being called black and only want to be called by their name.
*

But in what context would anyone refer to you as black instead of your own name??

@SrownBkinGirl

Yea right! Hermione was written as white because it was the default and implied. Some of her facial expressions (as pale as a sheet or something like that, etc implied that too). I don't remember Harry and Ron's race mentioned either. But Angelina was constantly introduced as the Black girl.

I think it was "lucky" that Hermoine's race wasn't mentioned (because it's the default) so anyone could play her but let's not pretend JK Rowling wrote Hermione as Black.

You're right, Angelina was always introduced as black from book one I believe. The public went wild that an assumed white character was now played by a black actress, when in reality, her skin colour had no relevance to the story. Somehow Hermione being black made a huge difference in some people's minds and many of them followed it up with "but I'm not racists"

I agree that Rowling wrote her as white mainly because she was very keen to point out black or ethnic minority characters.

Er, who put you in charge? My husband and kids are black - that's how they choose to describe themselves. You don't get to speak for them thanks.

The “brown” people I know call themselves “black”

You are not black are you OP? You come across as a white person who wants to be offended on behalf of all black people. You are failing, miserably.

I’m proud to live in a country that embraces everyone - regardless of skin colour, heritage, culture….

What about you?

Except there's no nationality called Black. It's obvious where the Chinese, Indian and Spanish ladies are from. What about the Black lady?

People regularly use Chinese, Indian, Spanish incorrectly ime so it's not the gold standard for describing people. I've heard people from Korea or Japan being called Chinese or the Person from Pakistan being called Indian. If the person is in your life eg a work colleague then you should know if they are from Vietnam or Singapore but can people really tell nationality without a cue like accent?

Do you prefer terms like African American ? How do people in the US distinguish Americans who are black from black people who are say Nigerian or Jamaican without asking or knowing them?

I feel like the “call me black” crew are always heard from to the point where they act like every “black” person agrees with them - we don’t. We never really hear from people with views like mine so it’s important for me to share this to inform people that there are people who don’t like being called black and only want to be called by their name.

I agree. There are many Black people with different views. I've said I don't agree with everything the OP's said but I agree with some and i see where she's coming from. Mocking her, calling her batshit, goady, troll, etc for her unpopular views (it seems) IS batshit. We keep saying Black people aren't a monolith and yet when a Black person says something completely different, their blackness is questioned. How bizarre!

And if you're not a Black person here, yet you're piling on the OP's views on race with your convenient excuse to throw insults, I see you!

Surrounded by 1600 children, something happens that you need to report, like some of them were picking on one child. You don't know their victim's name so can't go and check to see if they're OK or if they want to make a statement. You go and see the Assistant Head because what you witnessed was absolutely wrong and the offenders are absolutely denying that anything happened.

What year was he?

About Year 9. Maybe a small Year 10 or a tall Year 8, I guess. About five foot five, anyhow.

What colour hair?

Dark. Short. Curly.

Curly? Do you mean Freddie Bloggs?

No, not Freddie Bloggs. Um, er, definitely not Freddie Bloggs.

Definitely not? Going to need a bit more description than that, then.

Um, erm. I don't think I can tell you that.

Sigh. So we need a child who is about five foot five, might be a year 8, 9 or 10, is male, short dark curly hair, might have a head injury or be very upset. Can you give me anything more than that?

Well, they have warm toned skin, very dark eyes, long eyelashes and was wearing exactly the same school uniform as everybody else.

So we're looking for - ?

Oh, uh, I'd rather not spell it out. Would it help if I say I think it might be an incident of racist bullying? Or is that too much?

Ah. I get you. However, as there are still many, many children that could refer to, can we narrow it down a bit further? I can assume that in the absence of long hair or a headcovering, it's not w, x, y or z child. Anything else?

Um, not really anything I'd be comfortable saying. We could go look out the window and see if he walks past, though. Or see if he passes out in the toilets sometime this afternoon due to concussion.

Seriously. This is a non issue and I would have no problem of someone referring me to my race.

What on earth are you talking about?! Refering to skin colour, is not a form of racism! Just like pointing out a person's sex isn't sexism. This is utter nonsense, this is why society is so damn PC because of nations like this!

Hermione was based on jk herself as a teen, so I imagine in her mind's eye she saw herself, a mousey,.self proclaimed geeky white girl.
Emma Watson was far too conventionally good looking for my mind, but then so was the stage Hermione we saw.
I'd like a plain Hermione. Now that would be ground breaking.

That’s a good point. If you can’t refer to skin colour, why is it ok to say the woman or the man?!

What a goady post.

We never really hear from people with views like mine so it’s important for me to share this to inform people that there are people who don’t like being called black and only want to be called by their name.

But has anyone who knows your name actually referred to you directly as 'black'? I can't imagine this situation.

I think it's a shame you have such a blanket approach to this issue op because it's distracted most posters from the main point which is actually quite interesting and does have some merit

And who on their right mind says to their pals/colleagues or neighbours etc, look I'm black, white or brown it is ok to call me black/white/brown, you have my permission!

All behaviour is learned.
This thread is absurd.

What strikes me about this thread is that it confirms that regardless of how well-intentioned you might be there will always be someone offended, society throws up different terms that are accepted or not accepted. Is it POC or brown or black?. If I know someone's name I will use it but if I'm at work I'm often surrounded by hundreds of people who I am sometimes asked to describe. This just leaves me wondering how OP would genuinely expect me to do that? What is acceptable because reading the comments I'm not sure.

@BelleOfTheProvince

Hermione was based on jk herself as a teen, so I imagine in her mind's eye she saw herself, a mousey,.self proclaimed geeky white girl. Emma Watson was far too conventionally good looking for my mind, but then so was the stage Hermione we saw. I'd like a plain Hermione. Now that would be ground breaking.

I did not know that about Hermione being based on Rowling! Every day's a school day.

I respect your right to identify and call yourself whatever you want. However, I feel that your post is just adding to an already confusing (for many) discourse.

The dominant term in this country and at this moment in time is ‘black’ and the vast majority of black people, including myself, are fine with it (evidenced by the numerous articles written by black journalists, authors, academic literature, never heard any outrage at ‘Black History Month’).

There are so many more important conversations to be had. This isn’t one of them.

Language and social norms change. My late grandma identified as ‘coloured’, which would raise an eyebrow from her grandchildren today.

I acknowledge that individual differences exist too, in terms of what you would be preferred to be called. But you have to consider if it is a reasonable expectation for someone to know that, given the current information that is circulating.

Plus, all the black people I know would comfortably say, ‘the white woman’ or ‘the black woman’ if they need to provide a description for someone they don’t know. It is merely a descriptor.