Stop teaching child that it’s okay to refer to someone’s skin colour

[CannotThinkOfName]

Calling someone - a random person you don’t know - black is racist. I don’t care if your personal friend or your family member or someone else you’re close to doesn’t mind being referred to like this because they’re speaking for themselves as individuals.

Pointing out someone by skin colour is rude at best and at worst a form of racism. This is because

1. Skin colour that I was born with is brown.
2. Skin colour that I was born with does not define anyone. It doesn’t define your traits, characteristics, hobbies, goals, ambitions or anything else that truly defines who a person is.
3. It’s a form of racial harassment to start bothering someone at random and bringing up their race and colour for no real reason and singling them out by it.

I’ve seen people say there’s nothing wrong with their child referring to people by skin because they are just “saying what they see”. This is wrong because as a child, I never ever saw myself as “black” or described myself “black”. This is taught as a way to refer to people, it’s not simply a child “saying what they see”.

Please stop teaching your child that it’s okay to refer to people that you don’t know this way. If you do know someone and they’ve told you to call them black then that’s their choice as an individual. They don’t speak for anyone else but themselves.

If you don’t know someone’s name, - just ask them what their name is and call them by their actual name. Not “that black girl” or “the black woman” or “that black lady”.

This is nonsense. Is OP a black person? I don't know any black person (and I am black) who would be offended by this.

If describing someone I would say that short/tall, slim/fat, black/white/brown skinned etc. woman/man.

They are merely descriptive words.

The origins of classification by skin colour IS racist, but every day use certainly is not.

In fact in irritates me when people are describing someone and avoid saying the most obvious feature about them which is typically skin colour & then height/build etc

Remember the outrage when Hermione was played by Noma Dumezweni in the Harry potter play and everyone insisted that she was written to be white? But I think (if I remember rightly) her race was never mentioned in the books.

Exactly.

@Biancadelrioisback

I know this is very different so please see where I'm coming from, but I'm very, very pale and I have been referred to as the pale woman over there and I didn't like it. There is much more to me than my paleness... obviously I've never experienced racism due to being pale so it's not comparable in that respect

Yep, no one would like to be reduced to one characteristic like their skin tone all the time, however I feel like we’ve made it acceptable to do such as long as the person you’re referring to is deemed black.

Not disagreeing with you, just adding on to what you’ve said

@CannotThinkOfName

“Black is just the word that differentiates brown skinned people of African origin (compared to those of central/south Asian origin for example)”

Ok, so then why don’t south Asians become black and African (including Afro Caribbean and African Americans) become people of African origin. Who gets to dictate that only people of African descent should be called black and every other ethnicity should be known by their ethnicity or nationality? Why can Asians be Asian but I must be black because someone else said so?

Why are white Americans called white, instead of European-Americans?

I genuinely don't know the answer.

@daffodils123

This is nonsense. Is OP a black person? I don't know any black person (and I am black) who would be offended by this.

If describing someone I would say that short/tall, slim/fat, black/white/brown skinned etc. woman/man.

They are merely descriptive words.

The origins of classification by skin colour IS racist, but every day use certainly is not.

In fact in irritates me when people are describing someone and avoid saying the most obvious feature about them which is typically skin colour & then height/build etc

I think I made the point in my OP that we are all individuals and we can all have our own points of views

@MarshmallowSwede

This is good advice to have. Thank you. I have a close friend who has a daughter who is half Swedish and half African so I do my best to learn about this. It’s always good to have information about things one might do unconsciously in order to break habits that while we as white people might not think anything about, we might want to see it from the other perspective.

Also, the people who aren’t actually reading what you wrote and arguing why they think it is ok is especially pathetic. She’s telling you why you shouldn’t do it.. and you’re arguing why you think it’s acceptable.

I’m embarrassed for you. Sometimes when people of colour tell you something is offensive, instead of arguing why you should keep doing or saying what offends them, you could actually take some time to examine from their perspective and listen.

There are several black people on this thread who don't agree and have stated why. Is her view the only one that matters? No one speaks for anyone and just because she said it doesn't mean it's right. That also goes for what I say. Should I also be ashamed of myself for not agreeing and as black person also giving my reasons? Do i just have to agree with her?

You don’t get to speak for other people

Nor do you

[quote Comedycook]@MolyHolyGuacamole. Yes I understand and agree. The problem is the op is applying her opinion to all situations it seems...hence why I said at the start of the thread, context and intent is the important factor here. Referencing someone's race can range from it being racist abuse to being absolutely crucial information.[/quote]
Agreed.

I think OP started making a valid point but the rest of the list went off on a tangent.

I don't think it's polite for children to openly comment on people's appearance and have a parent say nothing. But OP hasn't really given a clear example. A child pointing and saying 'look mummy, that woman is BLACK!' Is clearly inappropriate.

But OP then veered into race not being real and started speaking for all black people while telling everyone else not to speak for all black people that the whole thread has become a mix of issues!

Good god I’m so confused. My best friend is black, she refers to herself as black. She is comfortable with being referred to as black. Her husband is white, therefore her children are mixed race (one of whom is my god child)

I mean, what the hell is acceptable anymore?!

@PotteringAlong

Race is a made up thing. It’s not real

Why is race not real? How is it made up?

It's true that there's no such thing as race.

There's no "black race" or "white race" or otherwise - each "race" does not actually share all that much in common. Each group is made up of highly ethnically diverse people. In fact, the African continent has the most ethnic diversity of all continents, but the classification of people as "black" "white" etc was historically for racist purposes by whites supremacists.

Objectively, people's skin colour does appear differently though. I assume that is what OP is referring to?? given that no "black" person has black skin, it is typically a shade of brown. Same with white people & those of Asian origin (who we dont refer to by the colour of their skin)

Yep, no one would like to be reduced to one characteristic like their skin tone all the time

I can understand that...I think the problem is you have lumped all potential situations together and applied the same standards. Whereas there will be occasions where referencing race will be crucial information.

@TattySlippers

Why are you offended by being described as “black” OP? Do you think being black something to be embarrassed about?

I have 3 mixed race GC. They are not bothered about being described as black. Being 50% white and 50% black they have concluded that as their skin tone is not white (whatever “white” may be?) they refer to themselves as black - like their dad, who is proud to be black. Being described as black (even though their skin tone is light brown) doesn’t bother them at all. They see their skin tone as more black than white.

Why does it bother you OP?

I feel like I explained in my OP why it bothers me.

I was at an event a while ago, as a white woman I was in the minority among guests. Sat at table 2 I wasn't the only white woman, the only blonde or the only woman wearing red at that table.

Quick conversation between waiting staff, 'where's this drink going?'

Tell me OP how'd you have described me to your fellow waiter in that situation? Because 'the white lady at table 2 in the red dress' worked perfectly well to get my drink quickly in front of me. As would 'the black lady on table 2 with the blonde hair' have worked for my friend sat beside me.

I think there's a lot of confusion here about what is racist and what is very simply a descriptor.

@CannotThinkOfName

“I do not think that referring to someone's skin colour is racist”.

It’s racist. It’s just that it’s a form of racism that has been normalised. People need to quit it.

I work with children, and children of all colours refer to others by their skin colour…. Are they racist?

My friend’s nationality is Irish. She’s black (that’s what she refers to herself as).

I’m the ginger one.

🤷🏼‍♀️

Is that racist? My race on forms is Caucasian.

I honestly don’t understand how you can say race is made up. It’s a social construct to an extent but it still gives protection under the equality act.

This thread just proves that there really are some bat shit crazy people in the world. Describing someone, using factually correct words, whatever next?

Skin colour is a descriptive characteristic

@BeenThruMoreThanALilBit

Race is a made up thing. It’s not real so I disagree with you that you’re just “seeing reality”. If no one taught you the label black to call people, you wouldn’t have known such a term existed. Calling people black is learned behaviour that people pick up from the environment they’re either raised in or live in as an adult.

This is where your argument fails. Race is, socially and scientifically, real. If it weren’t, there’d be no such thing as “racist”.

You’re thinking things through, and you’ve had an idea. I don’t think you’ve thought it all the way through, though.

In countries where white people are the minority, I imagine they get referred to as “that white woman” just like the inverse happens in the U.K. I think what you’re getting at is that you don’t like being differentiated from other people, the majority of people, by the colour of your skin. That’s certainly not how you saw and see yourself, and there are other more relevant things to differentiate you from other people. However, this doesn’t mean that describing you as black is racist. It’s all the heavy, implied history behind this descriptor, which is intended or casually disregarded or blatantly denied, that’s racist.

I don’t know what the solution is (I don’t think society has reached at once, hence the replies you’re getting), but I don’t think it’s as easy as saying “black” is a racist adjective.

Lol race is not scientifically real

www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/article/race-genetics-science-africa

@Booksandwine80

Good god I’m so confused. My best friend is black, she refers to herself as black. She is comfortable with being referred to as black. Her husband is white, therefore her children are mixed race (one of whom is my god child)

I mean, what the hell is acceptable anymore?!

Like I said previously, if you have friends that have told you you can refer to them as black, then continue. What I’m saying is don’t then assume some random person you meet will automatically like being called black too.

I recently had a friend reminiscing about my wedding. She was saying how lovely one of my friends was and how much she enjoyed chatting to them. Could we go out some.time. I asked which one. Beautiful brown hair(didn't narrow it down) brown eyes(that'll be anyone from DH side then) wearing a dress and so on it went on and on.
Eventually I figured out she was referring to my mixed race friend with Jamaican heritage.

1. We'd have been able to narrow it down a lot quicker without beating around the bush. 2)I know she's Jamaican British. My friend wouldn't have so mixed race or black would have been an appropriate indicator. 3)She knows she's mixed race. We talk about her experience of racism quite often. I don't think she'd consider it racist to give a description. 4)I felt uncomfortable because avoiding the word made it seem like taboo. She's proud of her heritage and it's nothing to be ashamed of.
2. Unnecessary descriptors, absolutely have no place. Eh She ran off with a black man
3. Necessary details can be helpful. Gail will meet you at half two. She's a large blonde lady/Tall black lady/Petite Asian lady. If you don't do 6) you'll waste a lot of time.

Yea right! Hermione was written as white because it was the default and implied. Some of her facial expressions (as pale as a sheet or something like that, etc implied that too). I don't remember Harry and Ron's race mentioned either. But Angelina was constantly introduced as the Black girl.

I think it was "lucky" that Hermoine's race wasn't mentioned (because it's the default) so anyone could play her but let's not pretend JK Rowling wrote Hermione as Black.

It cannot really compare probably but I lost count how many time I was referred to as "the latina". Second place for "the short girl".

It absolutely does not bother me.
I mean, even if they describe me as "the girl with the red jumper", as soon as they lay eyes on me they see how I look like...

@MatildaIThink

This thread just proves that there really are some bat shit crazy people in the world. Describing someone, using factually correct words, whatever next?

Well I think that's a little simplistic. So, hypothetically, If you walked past a black person in the street, pointed at them and said "oh look a black person" that's factual but it would also be a very offensive way to behave.

The op clearly has a lot of time on their hands to get frothy about something that isn’t really an issue. Are they saying that you cannot describe someone as black?

So consequently if the person was white you couldn’t use that either??

So if you got mugged by a white person god forbid you use their colour as an explanation to the police.

I feel like the “call me black” crew are always heard from to the point where they act like every “black” person agrees with them - we don’t. We never really hear from people with views like mine so it’s important for me to share this to inform people that there are people who don’t like being called black and only want to be called by their name.

It’s a bit like the N word debate. There are people on both sides of the debate. So I guess you would find using the N word acceptable too because I can find plenty of people who aren’t offended by it - perfect example are rappers.