Assisted dying

[ivykaty44]

I have nursed terminally ill relative, it was a case where Im sure that they would have chosen to use he assisted measures and would have more comfortable for them. It would have certainly distressed me, but I would have been keen to follow their wishes

They were diagnosed with a terminal illness that had a 4 months average life sentence and they died 11 weeks after the fatal diagnosis and refused palliative care to give them a few more weeks

I do believe in some cases to be able to have assisted dying, with possibly intervention of a court to ensure the person wishing to dye isn't being pressured by anyone - would indeed be kinder.

Death even a good loving death can be traumatic and cruel by the nature of dying, whereas a controlled process would be kinder in the actual process of dying.

Someone rasping for 3 or 4 days for breath is not a pleasant for anyone (I had a friend that this happened to but actually he went on for 5 days)

With strict control to ensure their isn't pressure or guilt to die surely this is not unreasonable to ask? I do mean literally with a few weeks to dye and allowing the person to choose when they are ready - if ever

Flossieskeeper
I would suspect some of the 50% of doctors who wouldn't prescribe are bound by their own religious rules.

Can I just clarify as someone who works in a hospice, we don't give drugs that make anyone die more quickly.

I am very pro assisted dying having watched my bed bound mother take 8 weeks to, effectively, starve and dehydrate herself to death.

She had a rare neurological condition which was only ever going to get worse. She had no 'quality' of life for the 2-3 years before her death and would have gladly taken the option to die. And none of us, her children (DF not in the picture) or grandchildren, would have denied her. It infuriated me that people bandy the phrase 'quality of life' around as though simple being alive is 'quality'. Those last few years, my mother simply existed.

However, even under the current guidelines in those countries (and states) that do have assisted dying she would not have met the criteria because her condition wasn't 'terminal'.

I heard a fantastic talk given by Rabbi Jonathan Romain and his position as a religious leader who agrees with assisted dying and has contributed to a book ( Assisted Dying – Rabbinic Responses, Movement for Reform Judaism (2014)[23] ISBN 978-0947884246) which was a fascinating read.

I do wish people would arm themselves with information before the 'slippery slope' comments.

RAFHercules can you link me to the sections of Dutch euthanasia law that say ICU doctors can euthanise without patient consent and that euthanasia is legal for disabled children? I'm Dutch and I've read up on various websites, including the Dutch government's own pages on the subject, and I can't find it.

Where children are concerned all I can find is that parental consent is needed between ages 12 and 16 and that between ages 16 and 18, discussion with the parents must take place, but they are not the decision makers.

Thankfully, where I live ( Australia) it was passed with very little dissent about a month ago. Having seen my sister and my best friend die horribly from cancer, I'm all for having the option of a dignified and pain-free ending.

@Gatehouse77 what do you mean arm themselves with information? I have all the information I need, with the fact I knew my own parents wouldn’t have wanted assisted death and that I wouldn’t want it either. Neither would my husband. There’s another thread talking about dementia patients; and I’m not even touching that because I looked after a parent with dementia, and although it almost broke me, there is no way I would have ever opted to do this for my parent.

It is a slippery slope, because once something like this becomes accepted, there will most definitely be vulnerable ill old people who may feel guilty and opt for this, even though they don’t want to die. Why should people have to kill themselves to help alleviate a political problem such as care crisis or housing crisis?

I wish people would stop with their anecdotes. I bet everyone has experienced death with a parent or loved one here. Doesn’t make you a better person for wanting to help them die so they don’t suffer, compared to someone who has lived through and cared for them until the end.

@pointythings

RAFHercules can you link me to the sections of Dutch euthanasia law that say ICU doctors can euthanise without patient consent and that euthanasia is legal for disabled children? I'm Dutch and I've read up on various websites, including the Dutch government's own pages on the subject, and I can't find it.

Where children are concerned all I can find is that parental consent is needed between ages 12 and 16 and that between ages 16 and 18, discussion with the parents must take place, but they are not the decision makers.

A lot of people have fallen for the misrepresentation in the media around Noa’s death & think doctors intervened to help her die.

Completely agree. Watching my dad in his final few days, I know he would have opted for this. It was horrendous, as I’m sure it is for others. I can’t see why we couldn’t find a way.

Doesn’t make you a better person for wanting to help them die so they don’t suffer, compared to someone who has lived through and cared for them until the end

Had anyone suggested that to be the case?

@PlanDeRaccordement I have a similar experience to you. I agree wholeheartedly with you. My father was asked to sign a dnr as he arrived at hospital with oxygen levels of 80%. I do not believe he had capacity to do that. He was then not treated appropriately either. My mother died of dementia. She fought for 2 years and did not want to die. Life is precious. I do not agree with assisted dying but I do think much more can be done to make people comfortable. My mum died within 24 hours of the administration of end of life drugs so I do think there is a bit of helping them on their way that goes on too (but she was clearly near the end).

I’m all for people choosing assisted dying where it’s the right decision for them.

But I don’t have enough confidence in our safeguarding procedures to believe it would be anything other than a slippery slope to ‘dealing’ with ill people who have become an expensive inconvenience and don’t have family members to protect them.

@BrainBleachNeeded

I wish people would stop with their anecdotes. I bet everyone has experienced death with a parent or loved one here. Doesn’t make you a better person for wanting to help them die so they don’t suffer, compared to someone who has lived through and cared for them until the end.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that.

The difference is one side believes it should be the choice of the person dying, where as the other side wishes to deny choice.

Doesn’t make you a better person for wanting to help them die so they don’t suffer, compared to someone who has lived through and cared for them until the end.

In the U.K. we’ve all gone through till the end as there isn’t an alternative

@BrainBleachNeeded I dont see that your arguement follows at all. Most people dont need assistance to commit suicide, so if there were a whole load of families wanting to pressure their elderly relatives into commuting suicide we should be seeing that now. Are we?

I agree. In some of the European countries where it used it to be easier it's now becoming harder and harder. Shame. I would want to book myself in, but I fear soon it will be almost impossible.

I think assisted dying is a great idea. I certainly plan on it. Assuming my loved ones don’t end up getting prosecuted for it.

We are kinder to animals who are suffering than we are to humans. People would be horrified if we just carried on prolonging the suffering of an animal that was dying, be called cruel etc. But for a person, life must be preserved at all costs. Why?

According to stats the number of people opting for assisted dying in countries where it is legal have remained steady, so it seems unlikely that large numbers are being pressurised to take this option.
Abortion is a legal option in this country, an individual makes their own decision on whether to undergo it. The same choice should be available re dying; if you do not believe in it you would not undergo it.the choice should not be denied to everyone else.

@Alaimo someone I knew in nederlands was terminally ill and offered assisted dying as an option to pursue if they wanted

My thoughts are that it should be instigated by the patient to go down that route not the medics

They did actually move to U.K. for palliative care and to die

As someone who has worked with dementia patients for many years, I wish to god that a living will was an option.

It’s no life.

My grandmother took her own life when she was diagnosed with dementia and all I felt was relief that she wasn’t going to suffer.

My father said he would too. Only he’s left it too late and is now currently in an awful state. He’s 87 and unfortunately is in wonderful health - he’s going to live many more years trapped in his own mind before he dies. He would not have wanted it to be this way.

I’m in favour of assisted dying for whatever reason a person chooses.
It doesn’t have to be a terminal Illness In my opinion, people should be allowed to die with dignity when they choose.

@thereisonlyoneofme

I actively researched Dignitas and would choose this for myself, BUT it is a long and arduous process re paperwork etc, you have to have various consultations and paperwork from your doc , then you have to get there. It apparently can take about 6 months for the whole process to be agreed, so a lot of people dont have that much time. For myself I would have no one to accompany me there. Im very much afraid of my end as I have terminal cancer. This Bill will not get anywhere i n this country Im afraid. Its another instance of the nanny state knowing whats best for us

lots of love to you