Assisted dying

[ivykaty44]

I have nursed terminally ill relative, it was a case where Im sure that they would have chosen to use he assisted measures and would have more comfortable for them. It would have certainly distressed me, but I would have been keen to follow their wishes

They were diagnosed with a terminal illness that had a 4 months average life sentence and they died 11 weeks after the fatal diagnosis and refused palliative care to give them a few more weeks

I do believe in some cases to be able to have assisted dying, with possibly intervention of a court to ensure the person wishing to dye isn't being pressured by anyone - would indeed be kinder.

Death even a good loving death can be traumatic and cruel by the nature of dying, whereas a controlled process would be kinder in the actual process of dying.

Someone rasping for 3 or 4 days for breath is not a pleasant for anyone (I had a friend that this happened to but actually he went on for 5 days)

With strict control to ensure their isn't pressure or guilt to die surely this is not unreasonable to ask? I do mean literally with a few weeks to dye and allowing the person to choose when they are ready - if ever

@garlicandsapphires

I think it’s inevitable. Does anyone remember the teenager with persistent depression who chose to die? In Holland I think.

Do you mean Noa? She was a 17yr old who had been molested and raped and was then euthanised. I personally agree with Dr Hurds analysis of this as an abuse of assisted dying. Especially, as I am a survivor of rape and I know that what she was feeling was real desire to die at the them but with therapy for sexual trauma, can go on to live a good life. drhurd.com/2019/06/05/assisted-suicide-depression-mental-illness-terminal/

I support it 100% and have helped campaign share and spread information on the dying with dignity campaign bill in Ireland, it is much further along than anyone expected.
There is a dying with dignity UK petition campaign, every signature helps.

@garlicandsapphires

I think it’s inevitable. Does anyone remember the teenager with persistent depression who chose to die? In Holland I think.

Do you mean this case, where she was denied assisted dying, so starved herself to death?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48541233

@PlanDeRaccordement
She was not euthanized, she starved herself to death.

@DockOTheBay
That wouldn't make a lot of sense, if it was from that religious belief then people wouldn't allow medical intervention to keep them alive which in many cases is all that's keeping them going by the end.
Religion does not make a lot of sense at the best of times, it is not rational.

[quote MatildaIThink]@PlanDeRaccordement
She was not euthanized, she starved herself to death.[/quote]
No, Noa did not starve to death. She was euthanised at an end of life clinic in the Netherlands, age 17 for being a suicidal rape victim. Which is very common after rape to feel suicidal.
www.foxnews.com/world/dutch-rape-victim-euthanasia-eating

Religion does not make a lot of sense at the best of times, it is not rational
Good point

[quote MatildaIThink]@PlanDeRaccordement
She was not euthanized, she starved herself to death.[/quote]
Seems there are conflicting news reports on her death. Not sure which news outlet is telling the truth.

Noa's case was very sad and similar to anorexia the trauma was too strong to overcome.
Severe MH issues is a slow death for many people, they never recover.
Noa would have committed to dying with or without help.
If I was completely incapacitated and needed help with toileting, feeding, dressing, even moving I'd want to die too.

Herja- he sounds like a wonderful man. I’m so sorry for what he’s going through.

It’s time we treated human beings with the same humanity and compassion that has been reserved for domestic pets until now.

It’s annoying that the bishops voted against. I accept freedom to practise religion but IMO legal decisions should be secular and rational.

My FIL was diagnosed with terminal cancer. At first he had a quality of life, but within 6 months he was in unbearable pain and begged to die. It was so hard supporting him. He was in a hospital ward with others, massively swollen, leaking various fluids and in agony. It wasn't fair on him or the others.

He was finally moved to a hospice thanks to MacMillan. Watching him die was awful. There was no way he was ever going to become well again. No one should ever have to go through what he did.

Severe MH issues is a slow death for many people, they never recover.
While this is true, currently doctors have no way to tell which people will recover and which will commit suicide. They just cannot know. Assisted dying puts too much power in the hands of doctors. Patients who are mentally ill, with no hope and a death wish who have tried multiple treatments and multiple suicide attempts can still recover. There is never objectively no hope. And assisted dying just has doctors collude with the patient’s illness when they are at their most vulnerable.

We all go on about a woman's choice to choose to abortion, yet we get terrified that a choice of continuing with someone's decision to end their life.
I think the decision should be a basic human right, who is anyone other than yourself able to decide you have to live and suffer? Unless you are in that individuals shoes, you have no understanding of what they are going through or can tolerate.
If someone is terminally ill then they shouldn't be forced to continue if they choose not to. I
I'd far rather have a controlled, pain free death than allow nature to take its course. Life at any cost is inhumane, for both animals and humans.

PlanDeRaccordement I understand your concerns about mental illness and euthanasia, but answer me this: how long do you think a person with severe mental illness and a wish to die should be made to suffer? A year? Five years? Ten? Or do you think they should never be allowed to say 'this is enough' and be made to live, just so that your concerns can be allayed? Because that is what your position would condemn people to. And I see it as incredibly patronising to say that people who have a mental illness must inevitably not be capable of deciding whether or not they want to live. Some will be, some will not be.

The Netherlands is not the only model of euthanasia/assisted dying and its not one I would like to see the UK follow. I am uneasy with the way ICU doctors can euthanise without patient consent and very uneasy that they allow euthanasia for children with disabilities.
However, I fully, 100% would support a model similar to Canada's or California's which has appropriate safeguards.
The views of the religious should not over ride those of everyone else, if they don't like euthanasia, they don't have to partake in it.
It's not about cost cutting, it's about ending suffering.

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48541233.amp

The 17 year old had an eating disorder and starved herself to death. She wasn’t euthanised.

Flossiskeeper In a recent (Sept 2021) BMA survey of 29,000 members, It seems that 50% of doctors would be willing to prescribe medication to hasten death.

I actively researched Dignitas and would choose this for myself, BUT it is a long and arduous process re paperwork etc, you have to have various consultations and paperwork from your doc , then you have to get there. It apparently can take about 6 months for the whole process to be agreed, so a lot of people dont have that much time. For myself I would have no one to accompany me there. Im very much afraid of my end as I have terminal cancer. This Bill will not get
anywhere i n this country Im afraid. Its another instance of the nanny state knowing whats best for us

100% agree with assisted dying - for any reason, including MH. I also have no issue with it in the context of relieving a struggling NHS.

I've worked in nursing homes for those with severe dementia - it's fucking terrifying. There was an elderly woman who walked the corridors all day, every day crying because she couldn't find her baby - I can't imagine the constant trauma that poor woman must have felt. It still upsets me, all these years later - she could well be walking those corridors still today.

It must have cost millions to keep that home going - to warehouse those poor people in a living hell. Yet we have those desperately needing vital healthcare being told there's no funds available - it just doesn't make sense to me.

Healthcare is fraught with difficult ethical decisions and as unpalatable as it may be, every day decisions are made on peoples care based on costs. I don't think it's unethical to consider the costs in these circumstances too.

But, costs aside, if I could have helped that woman escape the constant torture and exhaustion of searching for a baby that doesn't exist I would have, in a heartbeat.

The concerns about mental health and assisted suicide are largely moot as most people with mental health issues dont require assistance to end their lives.

The value in assisted dying is the choice it provides to those physically incapacitated by illness.

thereisonlyoneofme
I'm so sorry to hear of your illness.
No one should be forced to undertake such an ardous journey, often opting to go to Switzerland earlier than they would choose, for fear of not being allowed to travel at all if they are too ill.
It is disgraceful.

I personally agree with Dr Hurds analysis of this as an abuse of assisted dying. Especially, as I am a survivor of rape and I know that what she was feeling was real desire to die at the them but with therapy for sexual trauma, can go on to live a good life.

YOU can. Maybe she couldn't. You don't get to say what she should or shouldn't be able to live through.

My DF fears the indignities, pain and suffering of old age so much that he has been telling me, for many years, that he intends to kill himself before he gets to that stage. I don't believe he's mentally ill - it's a totally rational decision for a very independent man who has seen the brutal realities of what old age did to his parents and others.

If he knew he would have the option to die at a time of his choosing, then he would be spared the dilemma of knowing he has to kill himself while he is still physically capable of doing so, but before he actually wants to go. The option of assisted suicide would probably allow him to carry on living longer.

Will he actually go through with it? I have no way of knowing. But I'm not looking forward to being the one who finds his body.

When watching my DGM die - it took about 10 days though for the first few we thought she would recover - in about the latter half I would have personally administered the euthanasia drugs. She was not deriving any benefit from living, nor was there any prospect of her deriving benefit ever again, and at that point it would have been better for her to go.

Often there's a religious element to the counter argument. God gives life and only God can take it away. But what's the point in having free will if a human being can't exercise it to choose when to die?