To wonder who will look after us in old age?

[malificent7]

I am curently a care assitant temp until my permanent job in healthcare is sorted. It is very rewarding but hard, dirty work for little money.
They are understaffed and many are leaving due to bad pay. As we are an aging population aibu to think this is going to get worse? How can we get carers to stay,?

Disclaimer...there is no way i want dd to look after me...not fair on her...i'd rather go to a home.

I'm a district nurse, the situation is awful sadly. I worry very much for NOW as I'm 36 weeks pregnant and have on 2 occasions in my life had the blessing of receiving nhs care to more or less save my life. I'm not a nurse who wants to give up or leave..... but I'm scared to death of what the future holds for Heath and social care, we can't even safely deliver care for those that need it now. Sad times 😢

The point is, it should be a choice if someone wants to go down that route. No one is suggesting it’s forced on anyone but it shouldn’t not be an option, because some people disagree with it!

Of course it should be a choice. But we don’t want it to become an expectation, that people book themselves a flight to Switzerland out of duty to avoid becoming a burden.

I agree that assisted dying is far from being the only answer but it'd help prevent a lot of suffering for those who'd choose that option. Improved and affordable Care and palliative care are also incredibly important as are other measures.

@Ledition

Depends how "bad" I am but I would want my DDs to look after me! I will look after my own mum if she requires it in the future. It's not selfish IMO it's what good families are supposed to do. However, full-time around the clock care with zero respite is different but if I just need a bit of help with showering/cooking well they can bloody well step up

Genuinely curious but do you not consider your children might move away? I live 400 miles from my parents, in my husband's home town. None of my siblings live close to my parents - just the way jobs have worked out. For example, if your children went into medicine doctors have to be pretty flexible about where they work when applying for their specialisms as it's so competitive.

action.dignityindying.org.uk/page/92231/petition/1?ea.url.id=5558336&forwarded=true

When I was training to be a nurse I loved my placements caring for the elderly, especially in a care home. I probably wouldn't work in a care home as a nurse tho due to the responsibility and conditions and on a ward I hated it as there was just no time to look after anyone properly. (so I've ended up in endoscopy). Anyway, I don't think assisted dying would be appropriate for dementia patients. In general we need to get much better at letting someone due with dignity in this country. It's constantly just treatment after treatment and long stays in hospital etc.

I'll be doing a living will and being very very clear with instructions and a dnr in place. I'll be clear with family too.
I would definately care as much as I could for my mum tho when she needs it.

I understand the feelings about assisted dying but, I do believe that we are keeping people alive with more conditions than before which does impact on quality of life. This wouldn't have happened as much before I don't want to be alive if all that life is sitting in one room waiting for the next carer to pop by

In an ideal world, there would be a happy, well paid team of professionals to look after the elderly and everyone else in need of care and support, or there would be well supported families ready to look after other family members. However, we are slipping further and further away from the ideal.

Massive investment, rather than vague promises, into training and rises in pay and condition for people who work in social care could really help. Support for the thousands of unpaid, informal carers is also long overdue.

Assisted dying is admirable in its principles: to allow people who are close to death, the option of choosing the manner, time and place of their death to avoid intolerable pain and loss of dignity. However, there is so much potential for legislation around AD to be abused or exploited that I feel extremely uneasy with the idea. Person-centred palliative care, which would include preparation for death if the person wished for this, seems better at the moment.

Assisted dying is definitely not a solution for the crisis in care and support.

@caravanman agree

Unfortunately those of you saying you'd book a one way ticket to Switzerland may find you have very different point of view when you are actually old and unable to care for yourself.

One of the common symptoms of dementia is that the person suffering has no idea that they are ill. Many have no idea how old they are and can think they are still young as that's all they can remember. They have no more desire to die than I do today.

I'd also worry about how some elderly people would weaponise the assisted dying option, as in 'if you don't do so and so, then I might as well go and get euthanised'.

My mum always said she'd want a pillow over the face if she developed dementia.

But it's taken over 5 years for everyone to realise that she's actually got dementia and now she can't make any decisions at all. She has no idea who I am. Now, maybe I should find some time in between working 50 hours and commuting 7 and seeing my kids, to go and look after her. But I'm not sure dh would be overly pleased. Or I could give up work to care for her. But I'm in my 40s and have spent 20 years building a career, so where would that leave my family?

Personally, I want to die before I get to either that stage or a stage where I'm physically struggling. But if I develop dementia, I'll be trapped. I know my mum wouldn't want to live the rest of her life like this, but she has to. As far as I'm concerned though, she already gone. I grieved for her long ago and now is a case of watching her body deteriorate along with her mind.

Worth remembering there's a massive difference between advanced dementia, and needing support & care while having a decent quality of life. Deeply fortunately none of my older relatives have developed dementia, but physical ailments have meant that they have needed additional support. My DF is 87 and in generally good health, but rapidly losing his sight. I'm fortunate in that it won't be a problem as and when he needs to move in with us (apart from some rather stressful building work we're having done!) but lots of people don't have self employed children living round the corner with flexible work and space in their house.

I agree that assisted dying is a completely separate issue - my DM died from cancer and made the choice to refuse further treatment beyond pain relief at a certain stage, I'm certain that if she'd been able to choose assisted dying she would have done so probably around 2 weeks to a month before her final death. That would have saved her a lot of suffering, but is in practical terms irrelevant to the care crisis.

Most PPs seem to think there are two options:

A: Be a burden to your kids and
B: Suicide.

I'd choose option A any time! My death will come too soon for my liking as it is.

Fortunately, those are not the only two options. Many of us have our own homes, which can be sold to pay for our care in later years.

The burden (if love can ever be simply a burden) is likely to lie more heavily on our partners, who may struggle to care for us if we deteriorate first.

I completely disagree with @Ledition in her assessment of a good family.

My lovely DGM's mental and physical decline in her late eighties was not something my poor DM or Uncle could provide care at home for. DM had a full time teaching job four hours away and he was a full time professor an hour away. They both lived in houses with three floors, for starters. DGM didn't want to leave her home town either. She had friends there, and for a while had a good, independent life living happily in sheltered accommodation until she could no longer and then moved to a home near my uncle. He visited daily. DM visited, an eight hour round trip most weekends. The last two years was an incredibly stressful time as DGM had senile dementia. DM and Uncle had had kids young so in their fifties did not have young kids as many families will now. DGM had a wonderful carer in the home she had dreaded moving to, who, along with her family, stayed with her tirelessly during her dying days. Carers like her are I presume not so common now because the pay and conditions are so dreadful. Geriatric care requires much more than a loving family I'm afraid. I agree it is a huge problem which despite being patently obvious does not seem to have been properly addressed by any government yet. And to assume that 'good families' will just step up would not be an acceptable policy, economically or morally.

Assisted dying is definitely not a solution for the crisis in care and support.

I agree.

Dementia is messy. It is not a vaguely dotty but sweet elderly person needing a bit of help. It is complete loss of dignity.

Mil was demented for ten years. She lost the understanding of the 24-hour clock, so would be awake or asleep at any time. She became doubly incontinent. She became aggressive, and also terrified, as she thought she was a child. At one point she was screaming for her mother. She had to be on a huge cosh of drugs to subdue her.

But because she was “healthy” she lived for ten years. No one could have looked after her in their own home. I can say, hand on heart, that she had absolutely zero quality of life and that advancing medical science (eg antibiotics) is not fit for purpose if it prolongs a miserable spent “life”.

I think in the future carework will be done by robots.

I would rather have the right to end my life if I needed a carer

I work full time as a teacher. I am a single parent with a 13yr old at home. I have a 32yr old son with ASD who has just moved into his own flat but still needs support. My parents are 84, mam has alzheimers & dad is not in good health. They are nowhere near ready for dignitas but they need a LOT of support. They don't cook anymore or do their shopping or washing. They do have a cleaner & a gardener. I manage their finances & all of their many appointments. Good families will want to help their parents but sometimes it's not possible. I was getting near to breaking point & felt I wasn't giving enough to everyone. One of my adult daughters is on long term sick waiting for a back op - she has started to visit her grandparents every day, checking their meds, cooking a meal & doing washing. When she goes back to work it will be back on me. I want my parents to stay in their own home. (There's no room in my house for them.) We are going to need carers one day & I know they will be hard to find. They need to be paid much more for the wonderful job they do. It is definitely not always as easy as saying good families will care for their parents.

@DottyHarmer the Call the Midwife author wrote an interesting book about that, i.e. the desire of medical science to keep people who are dying alive. I am sorry about your MIL. It sounds awful all round.

Several PPs say that they will keep healthy so they do not need care when elderly, or mention relatives still active in their nineties.
As a doctor, I can assure them that the vast majority of healthy old people do not stay fit to the last minute, then conveniently die of a quick heart attack!
At some point, they will begin to deteriorate. If they have good genes and kept fit, the process may start later than average, but it will still happen. They will just be 98 and needing care, rather than 88 and needing care.

Secondly, some PPs say that we can all sell our homes to fund care. Great, but that solves nothing if nobody wants to work in the care sector!
How will you staff your care home? There are currently nearly a million job vacancies in the UK, and most are in much more congenial jobs than having to wipe elderly bottoms for minimum wage.
Modern medicine has created a monster. We artificially prolong life well beyond its normal expiry date, and now we are struggling to deal with the consequences.
I remember a debate in the BMJ over 20 years ago, asking whether, by treating hypertension etc, we have simply converted a quick clean death from heart disease at 70, into a lingering ghastly death from cancer and/or dementia at 80. I think we are now seeing the answer.

My Mother should have died at around age 85 because her quality of life was so bad after that, she lived till she was 93.

My bio Father who I didn’t meet till I was an older teenager refused treatment for cancer and died aged 84.

I do actually think assisted dying is a good idea but in some cases it may be a bit muddy and grasping relatives would push to euthanise.

@Youcancallmeval

If I get to a point I need care, I will be booking a one way ticket to Switzerland.

Maybe this is particularly cynical of me, but I’m starting to wonder if all these countries that don’t have assisted dying but REALLY should are listening to lobbying from the care home industry. Do they think their profits will massively fall if we have assisted dying?

I understand a lot of other nations have more religion still mixed in their politics than we do, and we should theoretically have less lobbying than they do (like America, though it is legal in the state of Oregon). But EVERY person in the UK that I’ve ever known has seemed to be in support of having the option. I do kind of wish we could just call a single vote and say, “Let’s fucking have it,” so we can get it before a lot of us need it.

Then again, I’m sure some opposition would crawl out of the woodwork, try to target any voter who was already nervous into thinking that it’ll be death panels for sure, and the vote might be a loss. Sigh.

Only in our culture do we feel old people are burdens instead of realising what they can offer and how enriching inter generations living can be.