I don't know what to do anymore

[LostyMcLostHead]

I just feel like giving in, and I don't even know what I mean by that.

I don't know where to start.

About five two years ago I started to have an existential crisis. I felt depressed and angry and hopeless. So I read up on it.
I made changes to improve my health - diet, sleep, exercise, mindfulness, supplements, nature etc. I set up a successful gardening-based volunteering group that gets me and other members out in to a peaceful community garden. It wins awards.

The rage and hopelessness are still there. Everything feels pointless.

I had a job that was extremely well-paid but had become a bit of a bullshit job. It was no longer meaningful, I had a shitty colleague and no help from our line manager (who went off long term with stress) so I left.

This helped for a few weeks, but soon the rage and hopelessness were back. Only now I don't have a salary coming in.

I've tried out other jobs this year, taking short term or zero-hour contracts to explore different workplaces. Some aspects of the jobs are good, but large organisations are bureaucratic, inefficient and nobody challenges this. My managers are either stressed out or incompetent. They are often on sick. I have no agency even though I have experience and knowledge about the work. I'm now fat, middle-aged and patronised.

I tried and tried to get HRT, and finally got to someone who would listen. I'm on week 3 and the fucking patches wrinkle up. I thought this would be the answer to my problems, but so far it isn't. I'm losing hope.

Earlier this week I left one of my latest jobs after realising the boredom and lack of agency was making me feel bad again. Wednesday I felt great. Today I feel terrible. I'm still in bed and it's gone 9am.

Then on top of me having little money coming in there's Covid and Brexit and Climate Change. I'm cold and I don't want to put the heating on due to money. I am not even comfort eating. I have no interest in food.

I know I sound depressed. I have a therapist and have been in therapy for years. I actually trained as a therapist for four years. Have spent thousands of pounds. Yet here I am. In bed and crying, feeling hopeless and angry. I can't understand how people are getting up and getting through each day. Why bother?

@LostyMcLostHead

Thank you everyone.

I carried on over the weekend. I did the things I'm supposed to do, to feel better. My despondency is not as intense as it was, but it's still there. This is all so fucking pointless.
I have an appointment with my therapist later. I've been going long enough to have a good guess as to what she'll say. There's a cardio class I was going to go to, but that's feeling a bit ambitious now. I might read one of my stoicism books, they deal with the inevitable pointlessness of life.

I am definitely not a cat person.

Have you tried the strategy of just accepting everything is shit and not trying to fight how you feel? That can be less exhausting. I felt like you for decades. I feel OK last few weeks cos am on shitloads of drugs and got support. I know drugs are not what you want and I completely understand why. I am also exploring a new interest which I haven't had for years. Is there anything there's a possibility you can feel passionate about? I still worry about death every night though...

Sending hugs to Zing.

Hm, could be absolutely off beam here, but is the aversion to ADs because you think, or even a tiny bit of you thinks, you should be able to sort out your mental health by yourself, that they would be cheating? You've powered through loads of other challenges before by yourself so why not this?
If so, and I say that because I recognise the feeling, well it's all a bit self indulgent isn't it? Like all the navel gazing therapy involves is somehow worthier than just popping a pill every morning?

Having read through the whole thread I'm at a bit of a loss as to what you are "depressed and angry and hopeless" about? Is it your life? Is it life in general?

Life in itself is hopeless - there is no question about that. But the act of daily living can be anything from amazing through mundane to dreadful. In all your attempts to make yourself feel better have you looked inside rather than outside to find the peace you crave?

Have you considered training in therapeutic horticulture, so you might be working with client gardeners? thrive.org.uk/get-training

Also, there are definitely several ways to be a gardener/horticultural/nature conservation person, it doesn't all have to be machinery! Have a look at some of these re/training schemes: hbgtp.org.uk/about-the-programmes/alternative-schemes-and-careers/

I'd also consider applying for grant funding to employ someone at your community garden... And that someone could be you

You've lost direction; it also sounds as though you're lonely (you're also stuck in a very negative thought cycle). You need to set some goals/aims, and persevere with them - small goals (there's been some good suggestions) then bigger, once your mojo starts to return. Therapists tend to advise examining our thoughts, however I think that can be detrimental, it encourages rumination and getting 'stuck' in unhealthy cycles. I'd say stop pondering the "what's the point" thought. Its an intrusive/unwelcome thought, one you'll never find an answer to, so label it as such and don't dwell on it.

@BoredAndUnfulfilled yes, I practiced as a counsellor for a couple of years, part time. It was moderately successful in so far as my clients had a good experience, but a bit of a failure in that I didn't enjoy promoting the service. Mainly, at the end of the day I realised I was just once again sat in a room on my own. I felt no connection. Eventually I felt like this even when a client was there. I realised that I couldn't ethically continue. However, it did make me realise that I love working with groups. I'm just not sure how to transfer this to a therapy setting.

Thank you for your solidarity and compassion @Cheerbear23 and @TedMullins. (And Ted, thank you for highlighting the problems around Hari. I know he's a divisive character and presents a flawed hypothesis).

@Twotinydictators are you right? Do I dislike myself? I practice self-compassion but it's something I have to work at. I know that my childhood ultimately left me feeling intrinsically unlikeable, but it's in awareness and as I say, it's something I seek to address.

There is no point to life, it just IS. But you are here, living and breathing, so find the joy where you can. I would love to do this. I just don't know how.

@Fernhilde Have you tried the strategy of just accepting everything is shit and not trying to fight how you feel? That can be less exhausting.

I think this is a good part of it. I think last week I stopped striving and I just sat with my feelings. That led to my OP. A feeling of sheer, fucking, desperation. Unlike you I do not worry about death. It'd be a relief.

well it's all a bit self indulgent isn't it? Like all the navel gazing therapy involves is somehow worthier than just popping a pill every morning?

I did not find any of your post helpful. I felt completely missed by it. But I accept your point, this thread is self-indulgent and I definitely am someone who is very introspective and thoughtful. I wish I wasn't so self-indulgent. I wish I could throw myself in to religion or having kids or be happy to medicate myself out of this. I just can't.

I'd also consider applying for grant funding to employ someone at your community garden... And that someone could be you

Yes, last year I saved up and bought myself some time to explore this. Lots of people were encouraging the kind of thing you've suggested. I learned that I hated the process of writing funding bids. Ultimately I felt exploited by a major funder who wanted to "work in partnership" getting a large slice of the money for their consultancy/research whilst not wanting to step foot in the garden. I realised that the volunteering model is far more rewarding than trying to get a job out of it.

OP please get a dog.

Sending love and hope to you xxx

You've lost direction; it also sounds as though you're lonely (you're also stuck in a very negative thought cycle). You need to set some goals/aims, and persevere with them - small goals (there's been some good suggestions) then bigger, once your mojo starts to return.

I find this kind of well-meaning, kindly-offered, advice infuriating .
You're right. I have no direction, no purpose and I am fucking lonely in an existential kind of a way. I have people who love me, but my happiness is not their responsibility.
I have done goals. I have spent years changing the way I eat, sleep, structure my time, relax, work through small, long-lasting steps... I am completely goaled out.

And nothing has changed. I am still here and unhappy. Only now I eat a lot of green vegetables and no longer have a salary coming in.

You sound like me pre hrt. I was already on strong anti depressants but thankfully dr listened to me and put me on hrt on early 40s for peri menopause. Yes the patches were trial and error. Found washing butt with plain soap, drying then putting patch on not touching helped. Also just accept there are patch fails - ones that dont stick properly - I keep extra box just incase. Friend gave up and used gel instead combined with minera coil.

Is it a trauma response? I suffer/ed from PTSD and have the symptom you have. I do the things you do exercise, diet etc and find that taking 2 st John's wort before bed helps massively. It never 100% goes away and I get the worse symptoms before my period.

I know that my childhood ultimately left me feeling intrinsically unlikeable

www.betterrelationships.org.au/well-being/core-beliefs-self-acceptance/

If you've been in therapy for years and haven't dealt with this fundamental issue I would suggest you ask for a refund...

If you've been in therapy for years and haven't dealt with this fundamental issue I would suggest you ask for a refund.

Thank you for taking the time to post that helpful link. Years of therapy, training and supervision have also been helpful in addressing this fundamental issue.

@Hankunamatata I hope you're right, because I'm starting to run out of ideas

@Justreadingtheforum3 I don't think I could have any form of PTSD at all really. I don't want to tinker with St John's Wart because I've read that it can be fairly excitable with other medications and I'd like to give the HRT a good go.

@LostyMcLostHead

If you've been in therapy for years and haven't dealt with this fundamental issue I would suggest you ask for a refund.

Thank you for taking the time to post that helpful link. Years of therapy, training and supervision have also been helpful in addressing this fundamental issue.

So why is your childhood still an issue?

A few years ago, I could have written your post - I was menopausal (not that I knew it at the time, and the effects weren't as well known as they're starting to be now). I'd just left the latest in a succession of jobs from hell with a boss who was beyond sociopathic and a workload that was truly insane, and had various family issues going on that hit me far harder than I ever would have thought possible. From being a very active, ambitious, engaged sort of person, I ended up not being able to work, at all, for over 2 years.

I was put on antidepressants (though it took them a couple of goes to get the right ones for me, and no, I'm not on them any more, though the notes are still on file, so if I do need help with the anxiety and depression again, I don't have to go right back to the beginning). I was lucky enough to live in an area where our NHS mental health trust was amazing, with a truly brilliant CPN and then, when I was ready, short day courses to help me connect to the world again, at my own pace. Gradually, bit by bit, they, and very good friends, helped me re-engage with the world. As did the adorable therapy cat who came into my life (he wasn't a trained therapy cat, but my word, that cat was special - he's sadly no longer with us, but our older cat mourned him so much we got another kitten, and they're now good friends and bring us so much joy and laughter).

I'll never be quite the same person I was before I had what used to be known as a breakdown, but I am a functioning member of society again, having gradually started by doing a bit of self-employed work (I started with transcription, which I'd done years ago, but it's by no means the only option), and then going back part-time, on a "bank" basis, to another branch of the employer I'd previously been with. This coincided with the start of Lockdown 1, which meant I was able to work from home, over 99% of my job does not require me to be physically located in an office.

I stepped down 2-3 grades from where I had been and I couldn't give a fig about ambition any more - it's a good job my camera's off in some of the more "strategic" meetings we have to sit through as I really do have to stop myself rolling my eyes at some of the garbage that takes up the time and the terrible way that change is implemented (all at once, in a rush, meaning everything has to be done three or four times, and in any case, guidance from national government, such as it is, changes every 5 minutes depending on what today's soothsayer of the moment has told them)...

I never thought I'd get back to where I am now, but I did; and while I can't say every day is a bed of roses, I am interested again in life (mostly), and making plans to look forward to. It sounds to me as if you have loads of skills and resourcefulness to draw on - but it will take baby steps, and when you emerge out of the other side, you may be a little different from the person you were, but you'll still be you, if that makes sense.

Sending you very best wishes for a recovery.

Good luck.

Yeah it does mess with other meds (so I've heard) but I don't take any others. Ironically I do take wild yam in the morning (as hormone replacement). I'm not (or I don't think I am) peri menopausal but I am the right age and a couple of my peers have gone through the menopause. My periods are still regular.

Do you have / want children op?

I put of taking anti depressants for years. I’ve been taking the for 6 weeks now and I’m a different person. Honestly, please give them a try.

Writing keeps me sane, OP, open a free account on medium and write, write, write it all out. Access that creative side and read Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert. Write about gardening, whatever you like, or about existential despair. Write for you.

Sounds like you’d be good at being self sufficient, and it’s challenging enough to give you purpose. A tiny small holding to start a pick your own, a tiny plant nursery, animal feed, organic veg to sell locally, goats are an interest prospect if you don’t mind selling the males on.

Truffles are adapting beautifully to climate change in parts of the UK if you rewild a small portion of land for 5-10 years with impregnated hazel trees. Rewilding grants are available and you can have a tiny hut in a wood to chill & escape as long as you don’t live in it (planning regs)

Keep exploring…

Your reaction to your partner not coming to yoga seemed a bit dramatic.

I have been diagnosed with various MH issues and receive good support. This also means I have met many people in group therapy with various MH issues. You don’t strike me as depressed. I have met some people with diagnosed personality disorders and your behaviour reminds me of them. Thinking you are unlikeable, the inward looking of why constantly and questioning yourself and not knowing why. I know full well why I have MH issues. Do you have any idea why you think your unlikeable?

I've felt similar at times.
Mostly when under occupied and lacking meaning in my life.
No jobs are perfect, I wouldn't expect any job to be the thing to live for, it's just something that's hopefully rewarding at times or possibly just on pay day but enables you to...
...what?
You need a meaning, a dog, a partner, a date, a challenge, an adventure, a cause, a passion, or a some kind of something.
A wise woman once told me to follow the breadcrumbs. Find whatever brings a little smile or spark or meaning and build on that.
Someone mentioned gratitude, that can be a help. Also keeping busy doing concrete things for others in need, could be something as simple as cooking for recently bereaved or new parents, but not just listening which may get you down, doing can give more of a lift and take you out of your mind for a bit when it's not a cheery place to be.
Also if you feel at some level angry you may feel better for vigorous exercise, or getting it out physically somehow eg chopping wood, crushing cans underfoot to recycle, beating a rug, scrubbing something filthy, shredding or tearing paper, kneading dough, hammering nails into something, might sound a bit bonkers but this kind of stuff may help shift the rage when it's stuck. Mind your thumbs tho 😊
Hope you find your answer OP.

Hi OP
I’m afraid I haven’t read your whole thread but wanted to add my experience to the suggestions you’ve had already

I’ve been on AD’s for a long time and totally get your reluctance to try them. I’ve had various periods of therapy and counselling over the years

But that aside I’m post menopause now and still incredibly stressed with work, angry outbursts and I have high blood pressure, grind my teeth and suffer resulting headaches.

Last week I had acupuncture for the first time, as well as going back to yoga (alone) for the first time since lockdown. I don’t think I took painkillers once last week for the first time in a long while and my sleep was much better - try it?

I also took floradix even though I eat a healthy diet and my bloods were good.

[quote LostyMcLostHead]**@Fernhilde* Have you tried the strategy of just accepting everything is shit and not trying to fight how you feel? That can be less exhausting.*

I think this is a good part of it. I think last week I stopped striving and I just sat with my feelings. That led to my OP. A feeling of sheer, fucking, desperation. Unlike you I do not worry about death. It'd be a relief.

well it's all a bit self indulgent isn't it? Like all the navel gazing therapy involves is somehow worthier than just popping a pill every morning?

I did not find any of your post helpful. I felt completely missed by it. But I accept your point, this thread is self-indulgent and I definitely am someone who is very introspective and thoughtful. I wish I wasn't so self-indulgent. I wish I could throw myself in to religion or having kids or be happy to medicate myself out of this. I just can't.[/quote]
Oh I'm sorry it made you feel more desperate