I don't know what to do anymore

[LostyMcLostHead]

I just feel like giving in, and I don't even know what I mean by that.

I don't know where to start.

About five two years ago I started to have an existential crisis. I felt depressed and angry and hopeless. So I read up on it.
I made changes to improve my health - diet, sleep, exercise, mindfulness, supplements, nature etc. I set up a successful gardening-based volunteering group that gets me and other members out in to a peaceful community garden. It wins awards.

The rage and hopelessness are still there. Everything feels pointless.

I had a job that was extremely well-paid but had become a bit of a bullshit job. It was no longer meaningful, I had a shitty colleague and no help from our line manager (who went off long term with stress) so I left.

This helped for a few weeks, but soon the rage and hopelessness were back. Only now I don't have a salary coming in.

I've tried out other jobs this year, taking short term or zero-hour contracts to explore different workplaces. Some aspects of the jobs are good, but large organisations are bureaucratic, inefficient and nobody challenges this. My managers are either stressed out or incompetent. They are often on sick. I have no agency even though I have experience and knowledge about the work. I'm now fat, middle-aged and patronised.

I tried and tried to get HRT, and finally got to someone who would listen. I'm on week 3 and the fucking patches wrinkle up. I thought this would be the answer to my problems, but so far it isn't. I'm losing hope.

Earlier this week I left one of my latest jobs after realising the boredom and lack of agency was making me feel bad again. Wednesday I felt great. Today I feel terrible. I'm still in bed and it's gone 9am.

Then on top of me having little money coming in there's Covid and Brexit and Climate Change. I'm cold and I don't want to put the heating on due to money. I am not even comfort eating. I have no interest in food.

I know I sound depressed. I have a therapist and have been in therapy for years. I actually trained as a therapist for four years. Have spent thousands of pounds. Yet here I am. In bed and crying, feeling hopeless and angry. I can't understand how people are getting up and getting through each day. Why bother?

OP, I think that you might be right when you describe your situation as existential. Everyone needs to have meaning in their life, and it seems like when people get to middle age they can't gloss over it as much. They want some real content there.

That might be why the jobs are really pissing you off. So much work these days is stupid, or pointless, or some even seems kind of vaguely immoral when it comes down to it.

All that mindfulness stuff can be helpful if you are mainly needing time to reflect and see where you should put your energy. But it's not always so useful if you're struggling with the meaning of life itself. What's it all for, etc. And I think it can be more difficult for people without kids. Parents often can often find a purpose their children but if you don't have any, you almost have to confront the questions head on.

So I gues my thought would be taking some time to really start to explore meaning in a more organised way. Your gardening group sounds like it does some of that, but in an intuitive way, but not in an intellectual way which is maybe where you are feeling you are missing out. I'd try and see if you can find a job that brings in some cash and also seems to have a purpose, even a small one. Sometimes lower level jobs can almost be better as they are directly useful and you don't bring them home.

FWIW, I'm with you on the anti-depressants. I've used them in the past but I was not convinced by the experience that they really remedied the real issues, which of course remain. And I think there can be more to be gained by dealing with those. But one thing I find it helpful to remember is that the expectation of feeling contented all or even most of the time isn't necessarily reasonable. Maybe we are supposed to feel like things are not quite right a lot of the time, and that's normal.

hello
You do sound brill and you also do sound depressed.
A PP has noted some interesting stuff about deeper therapies. Without delving it into it all here, there may be things from childhood which you have 'coped with' and 'put behind you' which may be still there making you feel ill.
Have a read about complex PTSD; about recovering from trauma (any trauma not necessarily a big event, can be emotionally absent parents, long unhappy marriage etc).
I have depression, I kept all my 'things' in a mental box until mid 30s and then it came on me and my main symptom then was raaaaaaaagggggeee. I take anti-ds and they do help.
They don't make you feel out of control or spacey or out of your head. They help you, yourself, to control the depression symptoms.
That's what it is, an illness with symptoms. I am a mental health professional and the phrase that stands right out for me is

I look forward to sleeping because being conscious is so painful. It's exhausting just doing normal every day behaviours or relationships
That's a really significant symptom.
You can feel better, this isn't you now forever.
I hope this thread is a turning point for you. MN changed my life when I posted about abusive ex. For you

Oh Losty, there's not many posts that I read where I wish I could reach out and give the poster a big hug, but I truly wish I could for you, I can feel your turmoil..(And I read waaaaay too many MN threads )

I have a different life but so much of what you say rings true to me... I feel rather lost atm too...I have never had to consider antidepressants until 18 months ago then everything just went to shit .. I feel very peri despite recent bloods okay apparently , disabled DC which I am full time carer for, various other crap..then bloody Covid.

I have tried 3 different ADs and couldn't get on with any of them..I too can't bare the idea of not being in control and gaining weight, would tip me over the edge (I had an ED when younger). I feel utterly like I have no control over my life anymore but I also feel like a useless human being that probably shouldn't be in control of anything anyway!!

Have you considered ADHD (Inattentive also known as ADD) Losty? I only found out about it last year and it ticks so many boxes for me and apparently many women aren't diagnosed until everything goes to shit mid life!! Antidepressants are often not effective for ADDers, often making things worse. There are specific ADD meds which are more effective and suitable. Worth looking into?

As for dogs, I have a dog. She keep me from going insane frankly!! I have a dog that was retired from the showring which many people wouldn't know to consider and she has been a lifesaver.

OP have you tried giving yourself permission to take time out and just 'be', without feeling the pressure to know what the next thing's going to be. It seems like you're searching too hard to find your place and sometimes the harder you try, the harder it gets.

Give yourself permission to take a week, or two, or a month, or.... to let each day wash over you. You said All I want to do is read, walk or sleep. Do that. Stop chasing the answer and give the answer a chance to find you.

Our primary school has been desperate for someone to come and run an after school gardening club. I wonder if something like that might suit you?

You sound so down, I just want to come and give you a hug. Hope that doesn't offend!

@LostyMcLostHead

Gardening is something I've thought about. I actually did a bit of shadowing with a friend of a friend who is a self-employed gardener. What put me off is that it's 95% work with a grass cutter or strimmer or chain saw. And it involves a lot noise, petrol and driving around. This isn't me. I prefer the quiet, slow jobs like weeding, sowing, planting, sitting and watching with a cup of tea and slice of cake. Thank you for taking the time to suggest it though.

I think I would look in to getting a dog before anti-depressants.

This seems like a problem but it could be a marketing thing. Years ago I had a gardener for a while, and he specifically marketed himself as not using electric and fuel based tools, and being environmentally friendly. He used a reel mower for my lawn for example, a normal rake, etc. You might not want those kind of jobs either but if the place you live is big enough there could be a market for someone to do the kinds of jobs you want, other than maybe the cake.

@NinetyNineRedBalloonsGoBy I'd tell her I loved her. But I'd be thinking, "she isn't wrong. Life is ridiculously pointless".

@LobsterNapkin Thank you. I still have another low-level, zero hour job on the go. It will make a difference to the people accessing the service but there's a lot of pointless paperwork and pointless ppt training to click through.

@theansweris42 yes, there was some childhood shite to process. And some of it, such as a fear of poverty and what it means, is still around. I work on it with my therapist.

Big unMNy hugs to @Fairycircle and @beela

@Feedingthebirds1 I suspect you may be right. I've half-heartedly done that since I quit my career. I find it difficult to do, watching my savings dwindle away and my cv become more and more holey.

I did consider being a wildlife-friendly gardener and just using manual tools, advising clients to leave wild areas etc. I like thinking of business ideas like this, but feel exhausted or bored about the reality of it all.
I am mortgage-free, mainly because I live in a disadvantage Northern town and had a London-based career. Would people around here pay for a gardener, let alone one who want to be paid to tell you to let the grass grow long?

Just before I got diagnosed with depression, I could have written your post. I was a high achiever and outwardly happy but actually miserable and would spend most of every day wishing that I could just stop existing. I even had a mantra that I would repeat to myself (about myself): “hopeless, helpless, pointless, useless”

I didn’t want to seek medical help even though I knew there was something wrong, but in the end my family begged me to go to the GP and I was prescribed antidepressants. It took a while to find the right dosage but honestly the difference was astounding for me. There was no more crying constantly, I didn’t dread being awake, I wasn’t constantly angry at myself for not being good enough. I won’t pretend that antidepressants are a magical cure, because you can still have bad days, but for me they stop every day being a bad day and allow me to find some joy. The existential questions about the point of life still remain, but they don’t feel so utterly overwhelming to contemplate.

And in terms of weight, I have been on them for over 10 years and still wear the same size jeans now as before I started them! I’ve also never had any adverse side effects, but a friend who did tried several ADs until she found one that worked for her.

I know when you’re in the fog of misery that you think nothing can help… but honestly I believe there should be no stigma for treating a chemical imbalance with medication. And if you have tried everything else to no avail, surely it is worth a go? The worst that can happen is you don’t like them for whatever reason and wean yourself back off.

Having said all that, it is a very personal decision so if you just aren’t comfortable with medication then I’d just keep trying any and all the other options you come across. Best of luck

Sad to read how you're suffering, I could have written much of this myself.
I suppressed the existential crises and had a busy life, my response to it included therapy and a counselling diploma. Then a 'nervous breakdown' and deteriorated fast.
The medication can be useful, especially when the symptoms are severe, you will probably have to try several before finding a balance between efficacy and side effects.
I did get somewhat better using them and am maintained on them long term.

This is most probably temporary, two thirds of people recover with therapy and or meds.

I could write a dissertation on this, so pm me if you want further details and I will respond later.

I read somewhere that when you’re feeling like life has no point, what you need is just something to feel curious about. As long as there’s something, however small, that interests you enough to carrry on, you’ll be ok. That Pam Ayres poem about the orange helps me too.

I have and sometimes feel like you too. I was really against ADs but after being very suicidal I gave in a took some. First lot made me feel awful but changed to another and I'm on low dose if 10mg citalopram and it's made a huge difference. I completely know what you mean about not wanting to take any as I was REALLY against it. I have to admit it's helped. I've not put on an oz of weight either. No side effects- just feel better. Still have down days (having one today) but know it'd be worse if I didn't take them. Planning to come off them in a few months (been on them just over a year). Childhood trauma can really make you feel worthless and like there's nothing to live for. Really hope you feel better soon

I suppressed the existential crises and had a busy life, my response to it included therapy and a counselling diploma. Then a 'nervous breakdown' and deteriorated fast.

Wow. Very similar experience here.

That Pam Ayres poem about the orange helps me too.

Please would you say a bit more so I can find it?

Hiya @LostyMcLostHead I'm sorry I'm not so experienced with HRT or menopause as currently pregnant but your story reminded me so much of a relative of my husband. The similarities are striking! She left her successful career type job and really wanted something outdoorsy and in nature so retrained as a blue badge tour guide and once you're qualified you can do as much or as little work you like. She tours all over the U.K. and meets lovely people and it involves lots of walking, stately homes and there's huge variety. She absolutely loves it and it's changed her life.

www.itg.org.uk/about/how-to-become-a-tourist-guide/

Sorry, it’s Wendy Cope not Pam Ayers. Here it is:
The Orange

At lunchtime I bought a huge orange—
The size of it made us all laugh.
I peeled it and shared it with Robert and Dave—
They got quarters and I had a half.

And that orange, it made me so happy,
As ordinary things often do
Just lately. The shopping. A walk in the park.
This is peace and contentment. It’s new.

The rest of the day was quite easy.
I did all the jobs on my list
And enjoyed them and had some time over.
I love you. I’m glad I exist.

— Wendy Cope

OP, you are prepared to try everything except the medicine that might cure you? Why? I don't get it. You have literally tried almost everything out there to feel better. But none of this works if fundamentally your brain is failing to process seratonin or dopamine correctly (I'd guess seratonin from your description.)

10mg of citalopram could have you feeling better in a couple of weeks. Prozac takes longer but also lasts longer once you come off it.

It saddens me that MH is so badly misunderstood that there is some weird stigma about its medication.

The brain is an organ of the body. Just like the liver, kidneys or pancreas. If it malfunctions and fails to process seratonin or dopamine, how is this different from the pancreas failing to process insulin correctly?

Type 1 diabetics fly into rages if blood sugar is too high, or they act drunk and dopey if it's too low. They don't put up with that for years on end and say, "No meds for me! Diet and lots of exercise and therapy for my fury!' They take the insulin and get better. Why, if such an essential bodily organ is malfunctioning, won't you contemplate doing the same? There's no shame in it.

I think perhaps I’ve read too much by the likes of Gabor Mate and Johann Hari. Why presume there’s a chemical imbalance in my head when I’m just having a sane reaction to a crazy world?

Type 1 diabetics fly into rages if blood sugar is too high, or they act drunk and dopey if it's too low. They don't put up with that for years on end and say, "No meds for me! Diet and lots of exercise and therapy for my fury!' They take the insulin and get better. Why, if such an essential bodily organ is malfunctioning, won't you contemplate doing the same? There's no shame in it.

Why do we medicate Type 2 when it can be addressed by diet and exercise?

@LostyMcLostHead

Type 1 diabetics fly into rages if blood sugar is too high, or they act drunk and dopey if it's too low. They don't put up with that for years on end and say, "No meds for me! Diet and lots of exercise and therapy for my fury!' They take the insulin and get better. Why, if such an essential bodily organ is malfunctioning, won't you contemplate doing the same? There's no shame in it.

Why do we medicate Type 2 when it can be addressed by diet and exercise?

Type 2 diabetes can sometimes be treated with diet and exercise but not always. Some people need the medication.

What put me off is that it's 95% work with a grass cutter or strimmer or chain saw.

I'm not sure what type of gardener you were shadowing but people who garden like this are called Mow, Blow, and Go guys.

Absolutely no need to use any machinery during most sessions unless the lawn needs doing-a job I find quite theraputic.The rest is up to you and what jobs you take on. Obviously, there are probably very few jobs that pay you to sit with a cup of tea and slice of cake and watch the world go by but we can live in hope!

Funnily enough, I've just given up London to move to a deprived Northern town. I'm very happy to be somewhere with a slower pace and genuine people.

I echo what people have said - you sound like an amazing person with a huge amount of strength and intelligence who is having a bit of a crisis of confidence.
It looks like you really thought about what you want from life and it was health, and doing something you enjoy that let’s you connect with your community. I don’t know much about gardening but could you look to work in a nursery? Or suppliers for landscaping (and the plants) rather than a persons gardener.
With other more standard jobs I think you’d have to accept it can bring some mental stimulation but inefficiencies and bureaucracy is unfortunately par for the course.
If you get a dog I think it may help to stabilise your mood- we have a rescue greyhound and they are the most lovely calming presence in the house. Keep at it OP you are doing all of the right things.

Why presume there’s a chemical imbalance in my head when I’m just having a sane reaction to a crazy world?

Why do we medicate Type 2 when it can be addressed by diet and exercise?

OP what strikes me is that you have a very rigid way of thinking. About the world and about yourself. About therapy. About what you should be doing, what you should be achieving. You want there to be a rational reason for the way you're feeling - the menopause - rather than it just being that way because it is.

The world is actually rather wonderful, but it isn't perfect - and that's what you can't deal with. To you it has to be either 100% or nothing. But black and white thinking doesn't help you negotiate this imperfect world, where not everything follows the rule/text book. You have to be able to bend, at least a little; to accept it when things aren't exactly as you'd like them to be. Be willing to try things differently, to experience things differently.

Be kind to yourself. When did you last do that?

OP, I haven't read the whole thread so please forgive me if this has already been mentioned. Have you had your thyroid checked? Underactive thyroid may make you cold, lethargic, overweight, give you brain fog and it can make you depressed too. Best wishes.

By the way, type 2 diabetes can sometimes be treated by diet and exercise, but not always. Type 1 is always treated with insulin because our beta cells that make insulin have been killed by an autoimmune attack.

My mum searched for ages till she found a gardener who could do weeding. You might find your skills are like gold dust.
I'm on the HRT gel.
I admire you so much for all the things youve tried.
I really identify with when you said you want to sleep because being conscious is so painful. I've said that on and off for years (although having a good week this week).
I still grieve my previous dog but have two newer ones who give me love and purpose.