Should I believe DH or am I being naive.

[Amisillyornot]

3 years ago DH had sort of an emotional affair with a colleague. When i found out he was very sorry blah blah and I agreed to give the marriage another go. 3 years there has been no issues and I had no reason to doubt it, he moved jobs etc and no contact with the OW.
Yesterday he brought home a phone and said that he found it. I said go through the call log and try and call people. He said that it was left in the drawer and must have been there since Jan (they moved into this new building in Jan) and as he was working mainly from home, he only saw that yesterday. He asked at work and it wasnt anyone.
I said he should have just left it there at reception. I found that weird as DH would be the first to try and find the owner. He once found a purse in a coffee shop and travelled 40 mins to return it to an old lady.

I said look at the call logs and try calling someone and he said it is empty, must be an old work phone from the previous office people. I said check contact. I even said that it was weird that there was no password. He pressed contacts and his face changed and he tried to walk away with the phone pretending to make tea. However I managed to see that there were 2 numbers and it was the name of the OW. I asked for the phone and he pretended he didnt hear. I followed him and said that he either hands the phone over or we are done. He gave me the phone - phone was empty (no emails set up and nothing except for the 2 names in contact) - he must have deleted everything except he forgot this.

Now i got extremely annoyed and just said we are done. He tried to explain - I havent used this in 3 years, I saw it in the drawer and thought I would bring it home, havent spoken to her in 3 years, even i was shocked when I saw the name still there..... I am so upset that I didnt want an argument and just went to sleep in spare room.

Not even sure what am asking here but I suppose I just want to know what you MN make of this.

Enter the number into Whatsapp and check if there's a profile photo or last active status attached to it too

Yes is it a smartphone? You need to get it off him playing dumb that you don’t want him to have it in case she rings

Then download WhatsApp and see if the number is somehow live. Add the number to your contacts on your own phone
This might help you tell if there is a connected Snapchat account

Also is there an email app or do you have access to his emails. Maybe he’s been topping up EE.

As others have said this might not show anything as he might have stuck a new SIM in there

I'm guessing op has a relationship with her MIL and would have heard mil saying her son had given her a phone. Thus prompting op to ask where he got a spare phone from? So he was trying to cover his tracks. The dope.

So the OP is upset as she’s learnt he used to have a second phone to contact her which she didn’t know existed. I see.

And yes - he is a dope for not having binned it when he cut contact with the OW.

He obviously doesn’t use the phone anymore, or contact the OW with it, but the fact he still has it says a lot.

If he’d been serious about cutting contact and working on the marriage then he would have got rid of the phone straight away.

Sorry you’re having to deal with this OP, it must feel like another layer of betrayal and it must really hurt.

I don’t blame you for not answering your phone to your DH, because why would you want to listen to more of his lies?!

As other posters have said, once the trust has gone what else is there?

You’ve spent 3 years trying to work on the trust and now this event has just taken you back to square 1 I imagine.

Some men can be such shits at times

@DontWantTheRivalry - because we would have to go to his mum together to give the phone I think. Am very close to MIL and speak to her once a week and she will mention if he went to see her, because we always go with the kids and take her dinner when we visit.

@Amisillyornot

He has to this date denied that it was anything other than a friendship. He isn't the sharpest tool in the box, that is how I found out about it the first time. Text messages where they talk about this beautiful special friendship. Him giving her money, buying her lunch. Messages about him supporting her when she was 'depressed' about being fat. And lots of her saying he looked good today, he said I will always be here for you blah blah. When I said it was inappropriate friendship - he got angry saying it was just a colleague turned friend (who I pointed out I had never met as I did all his other friends and he did mine) then he said that i was trying to control him etc. When I said I was done. He has a choice to remain friends with her and I have a choice to not accept to be in this marriage. He then backtracked that his family was more important, begged and begged and I agreed to let it go and make things work and now this.

Tbh the earlier conversations - from how you've described them - sound like a normal friendship. Those are things you'd do with any female or male friend: buy each other lunch sometimes, support each other, boost each other's confidence. I don't think you should have been controlling who he can be friends with on principle.

The dodgy phone is a whole other matter though. He's clearly a liar so I'd ditch him just for that.

I mean the reason he's given is perfectly plausible- he wanted the phone and made up a lie rather than saying oh I've brought this home as a spare, it was my old affair phone. It did seem he'd forgotten the contacts were in there.
That doesn't make it ok though and for you he's lied and probably made it worse when I'm sure your trust is still fragile from the last time. On my you know what you want to do though

@randomthings

You don't have a separate phone for a friendship.

This...

He is a bit daft.isnt he... And obviously is not cut out doe affairs emotional or not.

I have close male friends, I would never ever, keep a separate burner phone. As this would mean they were NOT 'just friends' and I was having to keep it secret,away from my partner.

My partner has met these men. That's what normal folk do with opposite sex pals

[quote Amisillyornot]@yeahitsabadidea - yes i took a photo of both numbers

@Newusernamelalala - I tried calling myself from the phone to get the number but there was no credit!

My dilemma is should I listen to him/his explanations - why is the phone still charged. Why does he still have it when he moved office - although right now I do not feel like i can believe anything he says even if it is the truth!
Or just walk away.
I feel numb, not angry, not depressed more drained and empty if that makes sense.[/quote]
Walk away. He has proved you can't trust him so that's it.

@todaysdilemma - when i entered into my phone now, no whats app photo, just a 'hey am using whats app..'.
I did look yesterday( woke up at 3 am) and went through the phone (obviously not very well, am not great at gadgets) and there was no whats app installed, no Viber, no emails etc...so all cleared. But must have had whats app on there at some point, if the whats app is saying 'hey am using whats app'.

Some people are just incapable of understanding why a close "special friendship" without sex is an issue for their spouse (for some it isn't, but it's absolutely OK if it is for you!)

This is a bit odd. I mean, I don't know anybody who tells their partner they're not allowed close friends unless they are of the same sex! What happens with bisexual people? Are they allowed no close friends at all if they are in a relationship?

This seems very controlling to me and therefore unhealthy.

@DrSbaitso

I actually think it's likely he's telling the truth. Sounds like he forgot the phone was his and had her details on it. He would be a total idiot bringing his active use burner phone home and telling you about it, and you say his face changed when he checked the contacts. Sounds like the idiot forgot about his own old burner phone.

On the plus side, it also suggests the OW couldn't have been that memorable if he was fool enough to forget all this until he brought the damn thing home to check in front of you.

Seems more likely to me than an elaborate double bluff, anyway.

I agree with this. He was straight with you when he arrived home, telling you he had found the phone. Why on earth would he tell you about it, if he knew her details were in the phone? I too think he had forgotten about the phone and didn’t realise it was his one from the EA.

It is up to you about what you decide to do, but I wouldn’t say it’s a given to end your marriage because of this. However, this shows that you probably don’t trust him after the EA (which I can’t really blame you about) so perhaps there isn’t a future between you both.

@TheEvilPea

Some people are just incapable of understanding why a close "special friendship" without sex is an issue for their spouse (for some it isn't, but it's absolutely OK if it is for you!)

This is a bit odd. I mean, I don't know anybody who tells their partner they're not allowed close friends unless they are of the same sex! What happens with bisexual people? Are they allowed no close friends at all if they are in a relationship?

This seems very controlling to me and therefore unhealthy.

i think it depends on the definition of "close friendship" I would be VERY dubious of a partner/spouse having a close friendship with anybody that they did not allow the partner/spouse to meet.

@TheEvilPea

Some people are just incapable of understanding why a close "special friendship" without sex is an issue for their spouse (for some it isn't, but it's absolutely OK if it is for you!)

This is a bit odd. I mean, I don't know anybody who tells their partner they're not allowed close friends unless they are of the same sex! What happens with bisexual people? Are they allowed no close friends at all if they are in a relationship?

This seems very controlling to me and therefore unhealthy.

I am not sure where you are seeing the controlling and unhealthy behaviour from me. The tone of the messages were very clear that it was more than a platonic friendship. I have friends, close male friends I have known since uni, I can go to the movies alone with one of them as we share similar interest in films but I have met his wife and kids and so has he mine and most importantly, when we do go out meals etc, our other half are aware of it..it is not a secret. I have met many of my husbands friends and work colleagues. He had never mentioned her before - he knew the friendship was inappropriate, and she admitted flirting with him. Having friends bisexual or heterosexual is not the issue, the issue is feeling the need to hide this friendship and keeping secrets and lying to cover this

But must have had whats app on there at some point, if the whats app is saying 'hey am using whats app'.

No, that's just the standard status on whatsapp if you don't change it, that anybody who looks up your number can see.

If I were you I'd stop tying myself in knots about this. Although I don't understand your issue with what you knew previously of the initial friendship, perhaps there was more that you haven't told us that made it cross the line into being inappropriate.

But now, you know he has lied. You know he had a separate phone, therefore this wasn't just a friendship and it's highly unlikely it was "just" an EA either. How could you trust him anymore?

i have 2 phones active.. one is a cheap one with a giffgaff sim in for playing pokemon go on, because i don't give a toot if the kids drop it.. the only person who has the phone number is my mom, because there are times i turn my phone off (want to be left alone) but it allows her an emergency number to call me on if she needs me.

I don't suppose your H is a pokemon go player though.
The questions i'd want to ask are.

1. Why does he have the phone in the first place. If they were 'just friends', why does he have a burner phone with just her number on it.
2. When did he buy it.
3. When did he last actually use it.

The important question is the first one though, because i can't think of a single reason someone having a 'just friends' relationship would have a burner phone purely for speaking to that person.

either it was more than 'just friends' or he carried on talking to her after you told him not to, and was hiding it from you.

Both are shockingly dishonest.

I am not sure where you are seeing the controlling and unhealthy behaviour from me. The tone of the messages were very clear that it was more than a platonic friendship. I have friends, close male friends I have known since uni, I can go to the movies alone with one of them as we share similar interest in films but I have met his wife and kids and so has he mine and most importantly, when we do go out meals etc, our other half are aware of it..it is not a secret. I have met many of my husbands friends and work colleagues. He had never mentioned her before - he knew the friendship was inappropriate, and she admitted flirting with him. Having friends bisexual or heterosexual is not the issue, the issue is feeling the need to hide this friendship and keeping secrets and lying to cover this

As I said I was just going on your previous messages, and perhaps there was more you didn't tell us. Assuming an EA from someone supporting a friend and taking them out to lunch, complimenting them etc seems extreme. I don't think it should be a requirement to meet all of your partner's friends and colleagues.

If, however, as you say above actually there was flirting and you were aware previously that he'd lied about the friendship then that's different, and obviously not ok.

Either way, you now have unequivocal proof that he is a liar - he has admitted he lied! - so the only option left surely is LTB?

OP if you do still want to pursue the extent of the lying, tell him to contact the network provider for a full call history from the phone. Then you'll be able to see when he started and stopped using it.

@TheEvilPea - my issue with the initial friendship was when I found the messages and the money etc and the tone of the messages. I said to him I find it innapropriate and I said that he should invite her at home and some other friends like we always do (we had our summer BBQ coming up). His behaviour was weird. He didn't want to invite her. It was things like 'she's just a very close colleague we work well together'...then it was she makes me feel good about myself, she compliments me, then it was she has a BF, her BF is an idiot she needs help, i cannot stop seeing her we work together, it is not professional.....the more I heard this the more it made me believe that i was not confortable with this. After a couple of months of this, I said I cannot do this anymore, he has a choice to be friends with who he wants and I have a choice to not be happy with this. Then she emailed me at work.At the same time he said he will stop all contact and his family is important, i am important and he changed jobs.
I agreed that for our marriage to work I wouldn't bring this up again and again and that is what I did, and until now I had no reason to doubt his commitment.

But if he's not using the phone anymore, it must be over, although how long for is unknown.

Unless hes bought himself a newer burner phone. This one was pretty old and may no longer support the more updated versions of certain apps.

@TheEvilPea

OP if you do still want to pursue the extent of the lying, tell him to contact the network provider for a full call history from the phone. Then you'll be able to see when he started and stopped using it.

Can this be done for Pay as you Go?

I believe so. Those phones were favoured by criminals so I believe network providers are required to keep a record of all calls for several years.

@TheEvilPea

But must have had whats app on there at some point, if the whats app is saying 'hey am using whats app'.

No, that's just the standard status on whatsapp if you don't change it, that anybody who looks up your number can see.

If I were you I'd stop tying myself in knots about this. Although I don't understand your issue with what you knew previously of the initial friendship, perhaps there was more that you haven't told us that made it cross the line into being inappropriate.

But now, you know he has lied. You know he had a separate phone, therefore this wasn't just a friendship and it's highly unlikely it was "just" an EA either. How could you trust him anymore?

This is nonsense. If you have never installed or used Whatsapp, you do not see that status. You see a message "invite user to Whatsapp". You only see that status if that phone and the registered number had Whatsapp downloaded on it. And it has to be the SAME Sim he had 3 years ago because if it was a new Sim and Whatsapp isn't downloaded on the phone, there would be no account.

So he did have Whatsapp on his burner phone his WIFE knew nothing about. The number on there was of the woman he ADMITTED to having an emotional affair with, and the woman admitted to flirting with him.
OP has also disclosed that this OW was never mentioned or introduced to her and only someone with zero awareness of human nature would not think that suspicious.

OP he is lying to you. He already lied when he pretended he found it in his work draw.

Then he lied to you about using three years ago but its still charged.

He mistakes your trust for stupidity.He tried hiding that phone if full view of you. So if you ever came across it you wouldn't think anything of it.

His mistake was that he didnt clear it before he started his little charade.

IF he was telling the truth (after lying) and it was the phone he used years ago no way would that phone be entering your house. It would have been binned because he wouldn't have wanted the reminder of what he did to you those years ago.

The hardest thing to accept when you are with a liar is the sheer audacity of it. Like how the hell can they be so brazen to lie to your face? How can they look you in the eye and lie like that when they know you love them. But they absolutely do. They lie then lie again to cover the first lie only it starts to sound like shite. And you know this is shite. That phone is active OP, he is in touch with her again.

I’ve read the whole thread OP. It took me right back to when I found out my partner was fucking about. All the lies about phones. I gave him the benefit of the doubt so often because I loved him and I didn’t want it to be true. I finally called it off and have seriously never looked back.

I’m annoyed at myself for wasting so much energy and time with that arsehole. I should have left him years before. Since then I met and married someone in my late 40s. My relationship now is like night and day. I just don’t have that knot of anxiety that I had for a long time knowing that I wasn’t being told the whole truth.

Im sorry you’re going thru this. For what it’s worth. Don’t contact the OW. That gives her power. I made the mistake of doing this. He then made me out to be done kind of nutcase. He had actually got engaged to her. She flashed this big fake ring at me which he claimed she bought herself. Who knows. The web of deceit was awful to be part of and I wasted hours/days/weeks playing detective. Trying to work it out. I then just stopped. It’s so good to be free of the anxiety of trying to work it all out. I had to go abs get tested for HIV and STIs. It was awful.

You said your husband wasn’t that smart. But was smart enough to buy another payg phone and keep it at work. There is ofc the possibility that he had forgotten what lies he had told you 3 years ago but bringing this phone home and saying he had no idea who it belonged to is odd. Is he incredibly tight? Surely this should have went straight in the bin 3 years ago? If his elderly mum needed a new phone would it not be sensible to buy her one? His story stinks.

I think you should consider getting him to piss off for a couple of days so you have time to think

This is nonsense. If you have never installed or used Whatsapp, you do not see that status. You see a message "invite user to Whatsapp". You only see that status if that phone and the registered number had Whatsapp downloaded on it. And it has to be the SAME Sim he had 3 years ago because if it was a new Sim and Whatsapp isn't downloaded on the phone, there would be no account.

I think you've misunderstood my comment. Yes the phone may have had the whatsapp app downloaded on it previously. The point is that when the OP looked up the woman's number on the phone it had the standard status which just shows that she already has whatsapp and hasn't changed the status. It doesn't show whether he used this phone to contact her on whatsapp. It would only say invite user to whatsapp if the woman did not have whatsapp on her phone. It's nothing to do with whether the two are "whatsapp friends", so to speak.

@Amisillyornot what did her email to you say?