To think it Is it a feasible proposal that a school might consider allowing a currently pregnant Year 12 the opportunity to repeat year 12 next yeara currently pregnant currently pregnant year 12

[redhilary]

I have reposted this thread from chat due to limited traffic.

Is it a feasible proposal that a school might consider allowing a currently pregnant year 12 girl the opportunity to repeat Year 12 next year.

You seem to think the school isn’t meeting her needs at the moment, so why would you think it would be any better adding in a newborn and putting the teen in with a younger cohort of children?!

Yes, people with degrees-autistic or not-probably have better outcomes than those without. People pregnant at 16 will probably struggle though.

Fighting to stay at this school sounds like a mistake. If she’s choosing to keep the baby, then she can make education decisions after the baby is born. It might be A levels, it might be a btec, it might be an access course. It might be none of these things and she gets a part time job around her baby. That is for her and her parents to decide.

There is currently a thread which is similar to this running on A.I.B.U. The fact it is about a boy starting education is not the point, because many of the facts or interventions/strategies explained or equally relevant to a Year 12 Girl Autistic Girl.

@redhilary

There is currently a thread which is similar to this running on A.I.B.U. The fact it is about a boy starting education is not the point, because many of the facts or interventions/strategies explained or equally relevant to a Year 12 Girl Autistic Girl.

This thread is more about how a pregnant 16 year old will cope with education after she’s had a baby though.

The interesting point about the school not meeting the needs is probably down to some individual teachers and the poor SLT . This is because in English Chemistry and History which happen to be the three A levels current being taken . The teachers involved in these three subjects have been teaching Goddaughter for years and so have commonly used strategies similar to what I proposed earlier. It is the lack of uniformity or guidance from the SLT team , which at times has meant Goddaughters needs have not been met. An example of her current English teacher who also taught her in year 8 being able to both comfort and discipline her at the same time. This being her first after school Detention for not doing Homework and for being cheeky in class. That is a symptom of if people are going to talk about me or mock me, let them do it on my terms . Firstly her English teacher comforted her when she was crying over the Detention before explaining calmly to her that her behaviour was not good enough and she is better than that. Thus, bringing her raging emotions right down, potentially stopping her form doing something like chair kicking incident.

This is a good management technique for dealing with 'bright' children with additional SEN needs. These kids are far from stupid and the same consequences to their actions but need slight adjustments in how the consequences are in- acted.

Do you think some of the girls might have wound up Goddaughter, to do their dirty work for them by Swearing at the Head for not allowing a Non Uniform day. In an office environment as you know there can be a patsy possibly Autistic or not the brightest. used for other peoples gains or motives. This is likely what happened with that incident.

This is to answer the question about whether the school is meeting Goddaughter's SEN requirements.

Require the same consequences to their actions . I have got to stop rushing because I keep missing words out.

But OP, you're still posting reams about past events and what the school SHOULD have done. That's all in the past and can't be changed. It's only relevant in that you're saying your GD's needs have not been met by the school and they are not good at SEN provision.

And yet you and her mother are still determined that she should go back there? I don't understand why, when you obviously don't rate the school's provision for her. Will they suddenly make more allowances for her SEN when she has a baby in tow? Probably not. Will she be a calmer student when she has had all the turmoil of giving birth and dealing with an unpredictable, demanding infant? Very unlikely. Are there other educational settings more suited to her future needs? Most posters on his thread have said so.

But I'm wasting my time saying this because you will just start quoting exam stats again or telling us how the school let GD down when she was in Y7. None of which helps her with her current situation. From what you've said I doubt she really wants to take your advice. Does she even want a baby, or to go to uni? Or is she being pressured into both by the adults in her life?

@redhilary

In the nicest possible way, I think you have got to stop looking for reasons as to why the world is out of step and not your God-daughter.

To me, and I might have the wrong impression, you are anxious to at least find someone who can share the blame with her instead of saying to her, 'This is your fault and your alone.'

I still think all this energy being expended on whether or not she can go back is a distraction technique. It's as if you are channeling Nero and his violin while Rome burns.

It may all be academic because the way in which you describe her and the constant excusing of her bad behaviour, may very likely point to baby number two making an appearance before the first one is walking.

I would still be interested to know what your family thought of her sister blaming you for this girl's pregnancy? Were they not outraged on your behalf?

Anyway, I'm wishing you all the very best. This family do not sound like good news for you.

OP your support for your GD is admirable but you have to accept there are limits to what you can do here.

Your thinking is unhelpfully black and white. It is not an either/or choice between staying at the grammar and living on benefits for ever. It is a very good thing for the young woman to get get the best qualifications that she can. But lots of posters have suggested that doing that via an unsupportive school environment might not be the best route.

Every adult involved in this young woman’s life seems intent on minimising the actual pregnancy. You may be close to your GD but you don’t appear to have had the conversations with her that she needs about whether adoption is an option and if not how she intends to raise her child. That’s fine, you don’t have to solve everything. But support that puts the GD’s needs first is the most important thing for someone to provide. I honestly think this is a situation where a social worker could help.

You come across as someone who is projecting your own experiences onto the young woman and are in essence trying to save your own past self. The sister’s blame towards you is unhinged and the mother’s fixation on the chain of underage mothers is an odd distraction. All of you have lost sight of the wood for the trees.

@redhilary

Yearssince *She is disrespectful at school-swearing and destroying furniture * She is sly...sneaking out of the house without anyone knowing in order to have sex. * She is now pregnant * She says she wants to be rat-arsed for her birthday.

Firstly these two school incidents are partly down to the poor provision of SEN support (the school needs to improve on that for any future girls who might need support )

The first incident in year 10 occurred because all the girls were talking amongst themselves about what a 'Selfish Twat' the head is. However, Autistic people have a habit of speaking their minds openly so Goddaughter shouted at the head that she was a 'Selfish Twat' instead of keeping her opinions to herself. What should have happened is the SENCO should have been called and moved Goddaughter to a room hence told her to write an instant Apology letter to the Head This would have made Goddaughter aware had done and given her the option to remedy her actions. No the school acted in a inappropriate manner firstly by instantly placing her in to isolation for the remainder of the day and registering the isolation. Then the school brought this incident up in the year 10/11 assembly by highlighting the unacceptable conduct of some girls with the head of year 11 looking directly at Goddaughter.

The second incident (the broken chair one) happened in year 11. Goddaughter was texting the 'Boy' who had been bombarding her with texts for three days about waiting outside the gates for her at 3.30 .
The school have an 'instant' 1hr after school detention policy for use of a mobile phone in class. The Math's teacher thus walks over to her, pulls the phone directly out of her hand informing her and the class of her 1hr instant detention. Guess what 'Bingo' Goddaughter gets up, kicks her chair and accidentally breaks it. This results in a three day External Exclusion.

Again what should have happened here, is that the Math's teacher should have contacted the SENCO through her phone on her desk about Goddaughters use of the mobile in the lesson. The SENCO should then have collected Goddaughter from the classroom, talked to her for a few minutes and then asked her to hand over the phone. After that the SENCO should inform her of the sanction for her actions. That being an 'instant' after school detention. This is surely the correct way to diffuse a situation with an Autistic girl. An Autistic person is likely to act differently, to how a Neuro-typical person might in instantly understanding the consequences of showing their frustration, through an inappropriate action.

Please don't be nasty and unsympathetic towards her, by trying to paint her as someone who is reaping what they sowed through her actions.

No senco has the time to come and remove a disruptive student every time they do something they shouldn't. Sounds like the girl and the school are a bad fit

No senco has the time to come and remove a disruptive student every time they do something they shouldn't. Sounds like the girl and the school are a bad fit

I’m glad someone else said this. As a virtually full-time teaching senco, I wonder what I would be supposed to do with my own classes if I was coming in and out of them at this rate to sort out endless situations in other people’s lessons!

OP, I think you need to withdraw here and let the teen and her family sort this out-with her and the baby at the centre of any decisions made-NOT with a grammar school and A levels being the starting point! This clearly isn’t your fault, contrary to the frankly bizarre suggestion by the sister that it was. Focus on your own family and leave them to their mother.

Op I think you need to make clear to your goddaughter that she is the one who has to take responsibility for this. She no longer has the luxury of being immature she has a child to care and provide for. You need to stop thinking about the wrong thing you are focusing all your energy on the school being crap, the lack of support for ASD, the downsides of a higher education college and the boyfriend all of that is a peripheral issue. Ultimately the school is utterly unsuitable on many levels and also clearly doesn’t want her so she can’t stay, there really is no option. Also the idea of her being away from her baby 5 days a week is for the birds. Your friend and her mother can’t simply decide they will act like the mother when the mother is GD and she needs to be the primary caregiver while the mother and grandma can help out and offer support you can’t just pretend it’s their baby. The person who has to step up is your GD for the huge life changing event that’s about to happen to her forget about the education as your main focus and enrol at a college that has the ability to support a young mum and focus on her and the baby.

In your eyes the school doesn't seem to have handled things to your satisfaction over a number of years. Its difficult to see why you think she should remain there in spite of their apparent failings. It looks to me as if you are determined to get your own way and to browbeat the school into accepting her back. Even if its not in the girl's best interest.

She will find A levels difficult, nearly every student does, but there are students who flourish post-16 when concentrating on their favourite subjects. As an ex Head of Sixth Form I can confirm that students with babies can cope back at school, and can achieve to a high standard. However, grammar schools tend to be very narrow minded about their sixth formers, choosing to focus on students who want to progress to university, particularly Oxbridge. Their attention to apprenticeship seekers can be scant, and certainly pregnant students are not their chosen cohort. If the girl is determined to return to her school, there is a good case to be made for it, and she needs to be working hard on her subjects throughout her pregnancy. If the school refuses a place, an appeal to the governors is appropriate. But she should also investigate other local schools with sixth forms to have a plan B. College may not be an appropriate venue for her, she may need the additional support a school sixth form gives.

Thank You Murdoch.

To the other posters, It seems like Murdoch knows a thing or two about how schools think. This is because this morning a letter arrived from the school at my friends house.

Firstly the letter was very polite and positive in its nature asking about elder sister and making complimentary remarks about her school achievements . (totally irrelevant but it sets up the letters positive tone)

OK. The crux of the letter, highlights the issues facing the school and indicates possible solutions to Goddaughter remaining there. Firstly how they intend supporting Goddaughter in the school setting, until she begins her Maternity leave in the middle of November. This being the Doctor's recommended time to begin her Maternity leave and is 32/33 weeks into her pregnancy.

Post pregnancy they are keen to be updated and kept informed about her progress with the baby and wellbeing. Therefore, when possible/plausible would expect Goddaughter to undertake some A level study via the means of remote learning. The school will make work available for her remotely, they will mark/grade the work give back positive and negative feedback the same way as all the other year 12 pupils. Thus, seeking to keep her readily engaged in her education during her early post pregnancy.

The school are aware that for Goddaughter, to meet her academic potential, it may be required for her to repeat year 12 at the school or through another educational provider. Thus, they are prepared to consider readmitting her to year 12 beginning in September 2022. This being provided she positively engages, firstly with her remaining time at the school pre-pregnancy and then with the work provided online. They also would expect Goddaughter to attend the current year 11' s three Sixth Form inset days in July . There are a few more terms and conditions but this is the summary .

The letter than goes on to suggest that they have possibly not supported Goddaughter's SEN needs as well as they could have, over the last two difficult school years.

Finally. they add that Goddaughter has the ability to educationally thrive at A level study and enter in to Higher Education post the completion of year 13.

@redhilary

Thank You Murdoch.

To the other posters, It seems like Murdoch knows a thing or two about how schools think. This is because this morning a letter arrived from the school at my friends house.

Firstly the letter was very polite and positive in its nature asking about elder sister and making complimentary remarks about her school achievements . (totally irrelevant but it sets up the letters positive tone)

OK. The crux of the letter, highlights the issues facing the school and indicates possible solutions to Goddaughter remaining there. Firstly how they intend supporting Goddaughter in the school setting, until she begins her Maternity leave in the middle of November. This being the Doctor's recommended time to begin her Maternity leave and is 32/33 weeks into her pregnancy.

Post pregnancy they are keen to be updated and kept informed about her progress with the baby and wellbeing. Therefore, when possible/plausible would expect Goddaughter to undertake some A level study via the means of remote learning. The school will make work available for her remotely, they will mark/grade the work give back positive and negative feedback the same way as all the other year 12 pupils. Thus, seeking to keep her readily engaged in her education during her early post pregnancy.

The school are aware that for Goddaughter, to meet her academic potential, it may be required for her to repeat year 12 at the school or through another educational provider. Thus, they are prepared to consider readmitting her to year 12 beginning in September 2022. This being provided she positively engages, firstly with her remaining time at the school pre-pregnancy and then with the work provided online. They also would expect Goddaughter to attend the current year 11' s three Sixth Form inset days in July . There are a few more terms and conditions but this is the summary .

The letter than goes on to suggest that they have possibly not supported Goddaughter's SEN needs as well as they could have, over the last two difficult school years.

Finally. they add that Goddaughter has the ability to educationally thrive at A level study and enter in to Higher Education post the completion of year 13.

Well, that was a timely letter indeed.

Has your GD been allowed to read this letter?

Does she feel able to meet the terms and conditions set out?

Has she been able to articulate how she wants to raise her child in the early years?

--The letter is setting her up to fail and allows you and her mother to continue to duck the actual issues. --

Yes she has read the letter and apparently is buzzing...

How is this letter setting up her to fail !

This letter gives her choices and allows her time to decide what she wants to do and whether to stay at school or change to a F.E/Sixth Form College in September.

I also can't see how doing some A level work when possible, is nothing but positive and helpful for her..

Friend and Goddaughter have asked I come with them to the meeting @ school next Wednesday to discuss the schools offer and conditions.

Goddaughter is very adamant she wants to stay at the school . It seems to not bother her that if she restarts year 12 it will be in the year below her peers.

Due to her Autism, she has been singled out all her life for being different and odd. Thus, being one school year out of her calendar age is like a pin prick to her !

Where is your Goddaughter's dad in all this?

Don't set yourself up for failure. That letter may sound positive-there's a lot of 'ifs' attached. She isn't looking to resit after being off with a serious illness, she is looking to resit with her whole life upended and changed forever.

A year out to have a baby is not a 'pinprick'. By encouraging her to think this, you are building unrealistic expectations for her.

Won't the school think it odd that you are so involved? Is the girl's mother inadequate?

I wouldn't go to the meeting because when they're looking for a scapegoat for the failure of this plan, it will be you.

History has taught you this.

They sound like a toxic bunch and you like some sort of subservient old retainer-a bit like a 1920s novel gone wrong if you know what I mean.

I’m concerned they’re setting her up to fail because they are insisting that she does some school work while on maternity leave. Most adult women have the luxury of time spent to focus solely on getting to grips with parenthood and still find it overwhelming. Denying this to your GD and expecting her to complete school work seems at best unfair and at worst like they are deliberately imposing a condition that they don’t think she will be motivated or emotionally/physically able to meet. And you haven’t even said what the other “conditions” are.

Your own account of the letter says they mention the possibility of another educational establishment. Warm words about her ability to complete higher education mean nothing in terms of their own commitment or suitability to get her there.

It’s extremely odd that you have focused on her being a year younger as the thing to single her out and not the fact that she will have a baby.

Again, putting the issue of school aside, has anyone sat down with the GD and asked her how and if she wants to raise her child?

Again, putting the issue of school aside, has anyone sat down with the GD and asked her how and if she wants to raise her child?

I'm wondering the same thing. It seems to have been assumed the GD will have the baby. Abortion not an option, her mum will raise and she could even be shipped off to Godmothers for 5 days a week.

OPs posts are full of how GD doesn't like change, wants things to stay the same and minimising the impact of having a baby. Does the GD actually want the baby and have any say in this huge life-changing situation?

I would add that there are circumstances where I would defend to the hilt a young mother returning to an academically focused school or university after giving birth. But that drive has to come from the young woman. Everything you’ve said sounds like your GD wants to stay at school to avoid change and to avoid growing up, rather than because she is committed to her own academic future. And with her particular circumstances, even if she does show a drive to knuckle down, she still needs to be in an institution which is open and committed to meeting her needs.

If you were offered a straight choice between her getting A levels or equivalent qualifications at an FE college or failing them at the grammar, which would you choose?

At the risk of making this sound a Mills and Boom Novel or a Catherine Cookson Movie..

The Father is an interesting character a well paid banker/Investor, who is only interested in enjoying himself (actually he does love his daughters but leaves all parenting issues to his ex wife). However, he did offer the boy £10,000 to leave Goddaughter (his DD2) alone, which he withdrew after it became to late !

This grammar school and degree educated man also has a serious chip on his shoulder about the Public School people he works with. That is why he has stubbornly refused for 10 years to pay for any Private or specialist ASD schools or interventions for his DD 2.

The fact she is 'Average' at her Grammar school is not down to his care or interest in her education.

Yeah, if this is true, then this has disaster written all over it really.

Likelihood of GD managing to do schoolwork remotely whilst raising baby (if it isn't the plan to basically take baby from her and push her out to a more sisterly role), when lockdown apparently pushed her over the edge so much the first time around? Slim, I'd have thought - if she was so brilliant at working remotely independently whilst largely based at home without lots of social interaction, she wouldn't have got pregnant (according to OP, earlier in the thread, who always blames anything but GD).

But congratulations, OP, you seem to have got what you wanted from all of this for GD.

Personally I would choose the F.E or Sixth Form College all day long in those circumstances, but if she is not prepared to walk through the doors, to have a look at the other options. What do you do..?.