Star Hobson- murdered toddler; prevalence of videos of “funny” parenting of “difficult” children

[CallMeRisley]

This isn’t a thread specifically about Star Hobson, I know there is another thread about her. I didn’t know how to succinctly word my title so I’ll explain. After seeing that thread, I googled the case and read through some details. In this page of live updates from the trial:
www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/19659483.live-trial-alleged-murder-toddler-star-hobson-begins/
There are details explained of videos taken of Star before her death, from the mother and her partner’s phones.
These include for example:

-A video of Star distressed/upset (having a tantrum?) lying on the ground outside, an adult says “come on, get up”, she is then picked up by an adult by her reins “like a puppet”, then put back down.

-A video of Star falling asleep, eyes drooping and head falling lower and lower until she ends up with her face in a bowl of food with caption “That’s what happens when a baby doesn’t sleep”.

-A video of Star leaning forwards in a kids’ plastic chair too far forwards so that she falls out and the caption “It was in that moment she realised she’d messed up”.

The judge/lawyer referred to these videos as “disturbing, bizarre pieces of footage”. The judge or lawyer said of the tantrum/lifted up by reins video “why would a mother film their child in this state?” and of the falling asleep in food video “there is no love being demonstrated for that child”.

I don’t know about anyone else but I see videos like this of toddlers and young children all the time on Instagram and tiktok.
I have seen many “funny” videos of kids falling asleep at the dinner table. Just google “toddler falling asleep while eating”.
A personal acquaintance uploaded a video of their child crying at the table at breakfast time, having been given last night’s dinner for breakfast after refusing to eat it at dinner time, with comments of “good on you!” from others.

There is quite a well known and shared image of a Dad carrying his tantruming toddler by the front of her coat (I’ve added it here, if you haven’t seen it) which is generally shared as “funny” and “we’ve all been there”, the Daily Mail article about it calls it “the hilarious moment” and that the Mum can be heard “chuckling” during the video and she says “What's even funnier is that she is more than 3-feet-tall and over 37 pounds heavy and the jacket didn't break”.

There are also plenty of videos of kids falling off things, falling out of chairs, swings, pushchairs etc with “humorous” captions.

Ok so the parents in all these other videos didn’t then go on to murder their children, as it appears is the case with Star Hobson. But AIBU to feel uneasy about the rise and prevalence of “funny” videos making light of young children and/or showing them upset and in distress, and that the sharing, watching and making of these videos creates a desensitised attitude towards the children- that they are being used as humorous entertainment rather than their emotional needs being met.

So are these types of videos (obviously not including the later context of Star’s murder) as the trial says “disturbing and bizarre” and “no love is being shown” for the children, or are they just a bit of light hearted fun, poking fun at stressful parenting situations and showing solidarity for the tantrums, the sleepless nights and the rough and tumble?

TOTALLY AGREE. I went on Tiktok to see what it was all about after my daughter said her (8 year old) friends had accounts, and my only ticked interest box was "dances". Nevertheless I have seen some awful things on there with parents filming distressed babies or setting them up to be tricked rather than protecting them, the first one I saw was where a woman with a massive chest danced slowly to a lullaby with a 1-year-old on her hip and when the music changed to a loud dance beat she suddenly started dancing in a more violent way, swinging her boobs around, shocking the baby and nearly knocking her off her hip. The alarm on the little girl's face.. I am so disturbed, I wish I hadn't seen any of it. No way is my 9 year old going on there. I wish there was a report button for disturbing content /abusive tiktokers but if there is I can't find it. So sad to think of these babies in distress seeing a recording phone instead of their parent's face comforting them and then their suffering being shared online.

I think posting photos and videos of (distressed?) children under the age of 15 on social media, should be made illegal.

No-one in my circle of parent friends posts pictures of their children online although I think some of the grandparents do? My son is 12 and the only images of him online have been posted by others when he’s part of a group.

At some point, I’m sure there will be some useful caselaw to refer to brought about by a young adult suing their parents for unnecessary distress caused by posting images of them online without their consent.

I will look forward to that day.

Ive always felt uneasy about videos that ridicule anyone, adult or child. I found it most disturbing that some videos show a person/ child who seems to genuinely hurt themselves, but we are meant to find that funny? Or entertaining? No, it disturbs me too. It's one of the curses of phone cameras, everything is on film now. I personally don't watch these kinds of videos. To me it's a form of bullying almost. Im sorry I don't know about the case mentioned here OP, but very sorry that the child died and seemed to have an unhappy life. RIP Star.

I really don't like it, how can you laugh at another human being in distress. Or bring it up later, remember the time when x, my in laws used to make fun of how upset the now ex was and how funny his face was when he was crying as a child, and I still feel sorry for how he was treated even though he is an abusive sod, easy recording has made it worse. I can't stand people being teased so hard they get distressed, either.
Unless it is to record concerns of abuse, or harm, or to show the doctor because there is something you are worried about, put down the camera and deal with the distress. If your toddler tantrums because of something that seems silly, say because he wants his wellies on but can't because he is already wearing them, sure go ahead and share that without photos anonymously, because it might help a mum who thinks that hers is the only toddler who does unreasonable things like that but don't deliberately film it
A toddler might not be embarrassed to see the film but who knows, why take the risk, they certainly will be distressed if you keep doing it as they get older if you share it. If a child is distressed comfort it, try and understand why and help them calm down. My son started falling asleep in his food a couple of times, he did get overtired, but as soon as he began to droop I picked him up and cuddled him and let him sleep somewhere safe. Usually what sparks a tantrum caused by being overwhelmed is tiredness and or hunger.
Ssaud now ex used to photo or video me when I was upset after he had upset me being nasty to me, it was humiliating and distressing and when he did show them to people it was to show look what I have to out up with. And no bugger he showed them to pulled him up on it or reached out to me. I hadn't consented to being photographed and neither have these children, with children it normalises it, just don't do it. Not sure if these women shared the footage with others, but it's clear that they didn't do it for any kind purposes.

I can't understand why people post pictures or videos of their kids, particularly embarrassing ones. To the poster who posts pics of kids falling asleep in funny positions, why? Take the pic and show their dad maybe but why does the internet need to see it? If your partner posted a picture of you asleep on the couch with your mouth hanging open, would you be happy?

My dc has definitely had tantrums and I've had to pick him up and carry him out of places but carefully and making sure his head and neck are supported. At no point during a tantrum (public or private) have I thought to grab my phone. It doesn't make sense to me.

@cakegoblin

TOTALLY AGREE. I went on Tiktok to see what it was all about after my daughter said her (8 year old) friends had accounts, and my only ticked interest box was "dances". Nevertheless I have seen some awful things on there with parents filming distressed babies or setting them up to be tricked rather than protecting them, the first one I saw was where a woman with a massive chest danced slowly to a lullaby with a 1-year-old on her hip and when the music changed to a loud dance beat she suddenly started dancing in a more violent way, swinging her boobs around, shocking the baby and nearly knocking her off her hip. The alarm on the little girl's face.. I am so disturbed, I wish I hadn't seen any of it. No way is my 9 year old going on there. I wish there was a report button for disturbing content /abusive tiktokers but if there is I can't find it. So sad to think of these babies in distress seeing a recording phone instead of their parent's face comforting them and then their suffering being shared online.

I’ve seen a trend on tiktok where people trick their baby/toddler into thinking they’ve bumped their head. So the parent carries the baby on their hip and as they come through a door frame, they knock the door frame with their own hand or foot to make a bump noise, then react as though the baby got bumped, saying “awww” and rubbing their head etc. Then they laugh when the baby cries as though they really have bumped themselves.

Like ha ha, my baby is upset? Ha ha, my baby is stupid? What’s the joke. I think some people really do forget their child is an actual human being and not a prop for them to do whatever they want with.

Surely from the “prank” I’ve described above it’s then only a short step and jump to actually bump the child’s head as opposed to pretending, and laugh at their upset, especially for people already that way inclined such as those who were meant to be responsible for Star Hobson.

It's not cut and dry black and white though. Some videos of kids acting up are funny, silly and humorous. Some videos are disturbing and display frankly shit and disturbing parenting and an upset child. There was a vile viral video a couple of years ago on tik tok of someone pouring milk over a toddlers head. That is abuse and disgusting. Then there's a video of a little girl crying because "I wanna take a nap" her dad tells her to take a nap and she promptly falls asleep. That's funny because the child was just overtired and falls asleep the way normal kids do. Two very different scenarios. I personally hate videos of American parents smashing their kids faces into birthday cakes yet Americans find that hilarious.

@RedMarauder
👍

@Marmite27

I’ve got a photo of DC1 being followed by a clutch of cygnets and a mummy swan, which is adorable. The next photo is of her wailing in DH’s arms because mummy duck pecked her because she didn’t throw the duck food on the floor like she was told to. Third photo is of her cuddling her new teddy - in the shape of a swan.

Should I not have taken the middle photo? Should she loose the narrative of why she was bought that particular toy?
Was taking the photo abusive?
Not IMO as she was being comforted by another adult as I took it.

To what end did you take the photograph of your distressed child? Obviously, you are the opposite of an abusive parent and appear a very caring and loving parent but why take the photo? At that point surely you hadn't already intended to buy the swan? Your ds wouldn't have "lost the narrative" if you had just explained the reason behind the swan was because a duck pecked her?

I hate any video where people deliberately upset or embarrass their child for content, it’s awful. I feel they are very different to a child falling asleep in their highchair and mum taking a photograph to show to their partner or family.
Someone mentioned the Ingham family who I have read a bit about, they are awful, sharing everything including things like their daughters first period, they have played tricks on them for content and they show their kids in provocative poses, in swimwear and with often questionable vlog titles too(I am sure there was one about cream pies at one point). It’s not the act of a loving parent and that’s before we get into the other issues with that particular family,

This is actually a really interesting debate that I was having with a work mate yesterday. She doesn't post her child online because she knows some awful people out to get her and doesn't want anyone to know about her child. We both agreed personal social media is fine but neither of us understand putting your child on public platforms for strangers.

A serious question would be though, in some ways it's good that some cases are online as children have been removed from their abusive parents because of strangers online reporting the abuse whereas if they never posted online no one would have known. Very interesting topic.

I agree, these types of videos and memes make me uncomfortable.
However, it is the job of the prosecuting solicitor to spin these things to support their argument so I wouldn’t read too much into it.

I baby stand this type of video. Laughing at a distressed child?! It doesn't matter if they are being unreasonable- they are a young kid. They are being taught that mocking & poking fun is ok.
I also hate videos like this with animals in 😞.

can't

I think what is described on their own aren’t concerning but coupled with the cruelty that seems to have ended this baby’s life it’s a lot easier to see these things in a more sinister light. There seems to be so many of these cases where children are subjected to such deliberate cruelty for the pleasure of the person (usually a parental figure). Heart breaking that the last thing, maybe the only thing, a child can know is someone being cruel and/or hurting them.

@Bbq1

No, we didn’t intend to buy the teddy. If she hadn’t have been pecked, she wouldn’t have got it, it was entirely to make her feel better.

I actually took the photo to match one of my brother at a similar age, but he was assaulted by a seagull. I guess my parents took it because they thought it was funny. I did it in a ‘history repeating itself’ kind of way.

@godmum56

I agree, I think "funny" video's of children (and pets for that matter) are not kind or funny. It seems to me that many (most of) them are set up which says to me that the child or pet is being deliberately put into that position...with the child face in the dinner one, if the filmer had time to grab the phone and film, they had time to move the plate or bowl and catch the child's head. I have never liked that kind of thing...not candid camera, not the "funny" TV programs of accidents....it all seems to me to be unkind at best and abusive at worst And yes I get that people will be photographing/filming activites and something unexpected happens but from what I have seen, those are in the minority.

Exactly. DS2 once did this as a toddler at a family dinner in a restaurant. It was very late for him and I saw his head drooping, caught his head and removed the plate. That's what a normal parent would do.

@FatBettyintheCoop

I think posting photos and videos of (distressed?) children under the age of 15 on social media, should be made illegal.

No-one in my circle of parent friends posts pictures of their children online although I think some of the grandparents do? My son is 12 and the only images of him online have been posted by others when he’s part of a group.

At some point, I’m sure there will be some useful caselaw to refer to brought about by a young adult suing their parents for unnecessary distress caused by posting images of them online without their consent.

I will look forward to that day.

I agree. I'm totally against posting pictures of children online. They have no capacity to consent. Neither of mine have any online trace whatsoever, they are still very young.

I don't see a massive issue with some nice pictures being posted to a limited audience of close family and friends only, but anything for public view - no way.

Do not even get me started on the arseholes who post pictures and videos of their children in distress. If you need support from random people on the Internet, post on mumsnet or reddit and use your words like a grown up.

There's a difference between videoing your child so they can see how funny and ridiculious they were as a toddler when they're older and sharing on social media. Sharing for friends and family on Facebook is one thing but some of these videos of children are racking up millions of likes on TikTok.

One I saw a few weeks ago that made me really uncomfortable was a little girl and her Mum was giving her items out of the bathroom to see if she knew what they were for like deodorant etc. All cute until Mum handed over a tampon and the child demonstrated how it worked (fully clothed and in a childlike way obviously) - she was also handed a razer and she pretended to shave 'that area'. It made me uncomfortable and there were tons of comments saying 'why are people making this weird? She's fully clothed and she's a child, it's totally innocent' - of course it is from the child's POV but it had over 3 million likes, who knows who's watching and saving that video? And is it fair that if a prospective employer looks up her name one day she'll be linked to an account of her Mum posting videos like that of her almost every day? She's a very cute child but it was too far.

Someone mentioned FOD, my only discomfort with his posts is that he seemed to post far more of the twins probably because they couldn't object unlike the older girls. Haven't looked for a while though so it may have changed.

@cakegoblin

TOTALLY AGREE. I went on Tiktok to see what it was all about after my daughter said her (8 year old) friends had accounts, and my only ticked interest box was "dances". Nevertheless I have seen some awful things on there with parents filming distressed babies or setting them up to be tricked rather than protecting them, the first one I saw was where a woman with a massive chest danced slowly to a lullaby with a 1-year-old on her hip and when the music changed to a loud dance beat she suddenly started dancing in a more violent way, swinging her boobs around, shocking the baby and nearly knocking her off her hip. The alarm on the little girl's face.. I am so disturbed, I wish I hadn't seen any of it. No way is my 9 year old going on there. I wish there was a report button for disturbing content /abusive tiktokers but if there is I can't find it. So sad to think of these babies in distress seeing a recording phone instead of their parent's face comforting them and then their suffering being shared online.

There is a report button. Press the share button and it's at the bottom.

I hope you called out your acquaintance friend for the dinner for breakfast thing.

That is just cruel

@Luckytattie

I hope you called out your acquaintance friend for the dinner for breakfast thing.

That is just cruel

I was too cowardly to actually post anything under the photo, but I did report it to Facebook- they didn’t remove it but I hoped she got a notification to say someone has reported your photo, just to give her pause of thought.

I also reported and got removed a photo from another friend on Facebook (someone I went to school with) last Christmas when she was posting daily photos of the pranks her kids’ Christmas elf was doing. That day’s prank was to cut holes in the kids underwear while they were asleep in bed- seems her son slept in just boxers, she uploaded a photo of him (approx 7yo) lying asleep in bed, covers pulled back, with quite large holes cut into his underwear. Like just wtf goes through some people’s minds?!

During lockdown 1 DS2 had PE every day and I had to upload photos of him doing it to Twitter, tagging the school, as proof. He would have had weeks of detentions when schools reopened if I hadn't. It made me so uncomfortable.

I don't agree with laughing at children on the internet. It sits weirdly with me.

I think the harm isn't taking the photo, necessarily - it's what you do with it. Tiktoks of children having tantrums for example are disgusting. I couldn't imagine how I'd feel if I was having a bad day and someone monetised it.

I find it very bizarre the unstaged ones I find weird because surely f a child is distressed your first instinct is to offer comfort, not get out your phone and film.
With the staged ones it is just deliberate cruelty (I've seen things, where children have been told they aren't getting christmas presents, or given a present that is innapropriate, or an empty box etc. That is just cruelty to me). I can't understand the mentality of setting up a practical joke designed to upset children. I hate pranks and practical jokes anyway, but especially when the victim is a person who is innocent or gullible.

I haven't heard the case of the little girl you mention, but it sounds horrific.