Star Hobson- murdered toddler; prevalence of videos of “funny” parenting of “difficult” children

[CallMeRisley]

This isn’t a thread specifically about Star Hobson, I know there is another thread about her. I didn’t know how to succinctly word my title so I’ll explain. After seeing that thread, I googled the case and read through some details. In this page of live updates from the trial:
www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/19659483.live-trial-alleged-murder-toddler-star-hobson-begins/
There are details explained of videos taken of Star before her death, from the mother and her partner’s phones.
These include for example:

-A video of Star distressed/upset (having a tantrum?) lying on the ground outside, an adult says “come on, get up”, she is then picked up by an adult by her reins “like a puppet”, then put back down.

-A video of Star falling asleep, eyes drooping and head falling lower and lower until she ends up with her face in a bowl of food with caption “That’s what happens when a baby doesn’t sleep”.

-A video of Star leaning forwards in a kids’ plastic chair too far forwards so that she falls out and the caption “It was in that moment she realised she’d messed up”.

The judge/lawyer referred to these videos as “disturbing, bizarre pieces of footage”. The judge or lawyer said of the tantrum/lifted up by reins video “why would a mother film their child in this state?” and of the falling asleep in food video “there is no love being demonstrated for that child”.

I don’t know about anyone else but I see videos like this of toddlers and young children all the time on Instagram and tiktok.
I have seen many “funny” videos of kids falling asleep at the dinner table. Just google “toddler falling asleep while eating”.
A personal acquaintance uploaded a video of their child crying at the table at breakfast time, having been given last night’s dinner for breakfast after refusing to eat it at dinner time, with comments of “good on you!” from others.

There is quite a well known and shared image of a Dad carrying his tantruming toddler by the front of her coat (I’ve added it here, if you haven’t seen it) which is generally shared as “funny” and “we’ve all been there”, the Daily Mail article about it calls it “the hilarious moment” and that the Mum can be heard “chuckling” during the video and she says “What's even funnier is that she is more than 3-feet-tall and over 37 pounds heavy and the jacket didn't break”.

There are also plenty of videos of kids falling off things, falling out of chairs, swings, pushchairs etc with “humorous” captions.

Ok so the parents in all these other videos didn’t then go on to murder their children, as it appears is the case with Star Hobson. But AIBU to feel uneasy about the rise and prevalence of “funny” videos making light of young children and/or showing them upset and in distress, and that the sharing, watching and making of these videos creates a desensitised attitude towards the children- that they are being used as humorous entertainment rather than their emotional needs being met.

So are these types of videos (obviously not including the later context of Star’s murder) as the trial says “disturbing and bizarre” and “no love is being shown” for the children, or are they just a bit of light hearted fun, poking fun at stressful parenting situations and showing solidarity for the tantrums, the sleepless nights and the rough and tumble?

I also think context is all. In these kinds of cases messages between the abusive parents (actually often between the parent and their partner) often come out - I can think of a couple recently where they have - and often one, out of context, sounds like a throwaway frustrated comment any parent could say. But it's never just that one, it's a stream of them, many clearly disturbing. But then some of that is maybe only apparent in hindsight.

@CallMeRisley

I know you’re not judging OP, they were just discussion points, it’s an interesting debate.

My comment to the photo at the time was ‘it was all going so well, until they were pecked by a duck’. I think in ‘real life’ they were told ‘that’s why we said put it on the floor’.

Ducky bite bite the stuffy is now well loved and DC1 is able to feed ducks without incident so I don’t think they were too traumatised. When looking at the picture a few days ago, they did say ‘I should have put it on the floor’.

I do get what you mean. It almost allows parents who do not look after their children properly to hide in plain sight - how is it abuse if everyone is laughing.

I do have a video on my phone of dd1 sulking at the dinner table when she was about 2 and a half as she was trying so hard to sulk but also couldn't help but do the actions along to a song that was playing in the background. I watch it sometimes because I like remembering how irrational toddlers can be! But I'd never share it online. I don't want people laughing at my child. I don't want their tantrums or mistakes or illness all over the internet. I feel that part of raising children is protecting them and putting their faults online for everyone to laugh at is not doing that.

The difference is that whilst a loving parent may lift a child by the reins, or chuckle at a child falling asleep in their dinner, in the video of Star being picked up by her reins, she had a skull fracture, a broken leg and broken ribs which hadn’t received medical attention. She had a severe concussion and was in incredible amounts of pain.

I agree, I think "funny" video's of children (and pets for that matter) are not kind or funny. It seems to me that many (most of) them are set up which says to me that the child or pet is being deliberately put into that position...with the child face in the dinner one, if the filmer had time to grab the phone and film, they had time to move the plate or bowl and catch the child's head. I have never liked that kind of thing...not candid camera, not the "funny" TV programs of accidents....it all seems to me to be unkind at best and abusive at worst
And yes I get that people will be photographing/filming activites and something unexpected happens but from what I have seen, those are in the minority.

See this is difficult

I’ve had to manhandle my dc when they have tantrummed in the street. Once I had to pick up a screaming dd and lay her on the hood of the buggy because she wouldn’t get out of the path and just laid their screaming.

I’ve posted photos of my dc falling asleep on funny positions.

Nothing with food but I would have done if I had it.

It’s a part of parenthood. I find the imagines amusing to me but I don’t enjoy causing distress to my kids

It's nothing new though - similar types of "hilarious" incidents involving toddlers used to feature on clip shows like 'You've Been Framed' and each video clip shown was worth £200.
I can remember being a child/ teenager and finding supposedly funny videos of little kids falling over etc, really distressing, I don't want to watch them now on social media but luckily because of the algorithm they don't appear in my feed.

But despite that, context is everything. My oldest child went through a phase of falling asleep in the high chair and it was adorable but no, I didn't photograph it and I wouldn't have let his face end up in the food. I agree that the prosecution in this heartbreaking case will use everything they can to demonstrate the history of abuse.

@Badabingbadabum

I do get what you mean. It almost allows parents who do not look after their children properly to hide in plain sight - how is it abuse if everyone is laughing.

I do have a video on my phone of dd1 sulking at the dinner table when she was about 2 and a half as she was trying so hard to sulk but also couldn't help but do the actions along to a song that was playing in the background. I watch it sometimes because I like remembering how irrational toddlers can be! But I'd never share it online. I don't want people laughing at my child. I don't want their tantrums or mistakes or illness all over the internet. I feel that part of raising children is protecting them and putting their faults online for everyone to laugh at is not doing that.

Agree with this

@VaguelyInteresting

The difference is that whilst a loving parent may lift a child by the reins, or chuckle at a child falling asleep in their dinner, in the video of Star being picked up by her reins, she had a skull fracture, a broken leg and broken ribs which hadn’t received medical attention. She had a severe concussion and was in incredible amounts of pain.

Obviously the wider context of what was happening to Star is horrific

That guy who is married to the racist midwife is the worst.

I don’t think anybody should be allowed to share videos of their child online at all to be honest. The amount of parents becoming millionaires off the back of putting their kid on youtube is horrendous.

@Bringonthebloodydrama

That guy who is married to the racist midwife is the worst.

Who is this?

I do get what you mean. It almost allows parents who do not look after their children properly to hide in plain sight - how is it abuse if everyone is laughing.

And I wonder if it helps them justify their actions to themselves? A bit like how it's often suggested that rape jokes encourage rapists to think that they're normal and all men do this, and so they contribute to rape even if the person telling the joke, and the people laughing at it have no such intention. I wonder if abusers convince themselves that everyone does this and the videos prove it.

I disagree about father of daughters .. if that's who you mean about the man married to the 'racist midwife'

He's learned from past experiences and the children feature so much less now - the older ones barely at all and only with their permission. He has definitely dialled it back. I'm not a fan incidentally - just an observation

The worst for me is the pelo fam. The 6 year old has her own account, the children are literally dancing every single day doing tik toks and creating content. Every single day. And they're all under 6

I totally agree OP. Why on earth would any parent find their child’s distress funny? And why would they want other people to laugh at their child’s distress?

I also used to find my toddler falling asleep in her dinner funny. But would I have videoed it next put it out there? No, because I would not want videos of me as a toddler out there as an adult!

Also, if a child/person is upset then I do not find these clips funny. If the child is delighted in the fact they are covered in custard, hilarious.

I also think there are more people who watch those videos because they enjoy watching children in distress than we want to think, and that should give parents pause before uploading them. I remember once watching a supernanny clip on Facebook and one of the 'top' comments with loads of likes was someone saying something along the lines of 'I love watching these brats get their comeuppance. She should have given him a slap'. It was a video of a two year old getting really upset at having to stay in their own bed alone when they were used to sleeping with their mum; it had genuinely never occurred to me before that there were people watching because they just loved seeing the child so upset but clearly there were.

YANBU. I commented on a Reddit thread discussing an ‘influencer’ posting a picture of their child crying on Instagram. Said it was inappropriate and made me really sad. Was absolutely torn to shreds by people telling me to get a grip and that I’m “clearly not a mother because a mother would ‘get’ this”. Well I am a mother and I still think it’s awful. It’s an invasion of the child’s privacy. I’m sure that most of us would be appalled if a video was posted of us asleep and in an odd position, or sick, or crying. It’s the same for children, who could well grow up and be embarrassed by this (aside from anything more sinister).

I cannot understand why people are so keen to display every facet of their lives on SM, let alone seeking validation online by posting videos of their children in distress. It's not that I don't understand that 'awww' moment of a child drifting off to sleep in their high chair (I would have just enjoyed the moment tbh) but this all too frequently it becomes an act of humiliation - and where eyes that stop? At what age does it become not okay to humiliate your child for your own amusement? I know some families that never stop.

@SpeedRunParent this is why children in particular teens get mad at their parents for posting photos of them on social media.

I have never posted any of my DD for this reason. She is aware that we take photos and videos of her, including when she is having tantrums, as she likes looking at them. Only when she is older will she appreciate that there are no photos of her on social media.

It's tricky. I'm not a perfect parent but the moments I'm not perfect I don't share because they're private between my child and me, and because I sometimes feel embarrassed at how ridiculously high pitched and stressy I get over, for example, a pot of glitter sprinkling incident.

But it is a definite "genre' on social media

It reminds me of the Daddyof5 Youtube controversy. Does anyone remember that? After the videos were removed there were hundreds, if not thousands of people commenting that they were angry at the abused child Cody, claiming he was the reason the videos were pulled, and leaving comments on even worse things what the parents should do to him as punishment (I believe he was taken into custody after the story broke). It was a truly, truly ugly side to the Internet.

nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/04/daddyofive-youtube-abuse-controversy-explained.html

@Rubyupbeat

There was a spate of parents tricking their child that the parent had wiped poo on the child (melted choc), and the child being hysterical, I watched 2 that were sent to me, but they were upsetting, the parents hysterical with laughter and the whole thing filmed.

I heard about these and thought it sounded awful. Didn't see any because I didn't want to. Children can get unexpectedly distressed about things but setting out to do so is just such a weird idea I can't fathom.

I was reminded last week when DS shouted from the loo quite upset because he had poo on his ankle. It was indeed Nutella (eating breakfast with no socks on and his legs crossed!) but for that moment until I showed him what it was he was really bothered. Can't imagine wanting to create that situation much less film it.

And what that article touches upon is how things can escalate in order for more views, comments, likes and money. The parents in the link I posted in my previous comment were earning $200,000 - $300,000 a year.

The OP took great care to explain that these exploitative videos are being captioned and widely shared. The exploitation is of the child's right to privacy, and perhaps more subtly in some cases (but equally valid in my view) the child's right to have their feelings safeguarded. Laughing at a child's distress isn't loving, no matter how lightly you view their distress. Far too many people forget that young children are surrounded by giants and new to the world, their bodies, appetites, communication and feelings for far longer than is generally granted them with understanding.