AIBU worry that the next generation are not actually that "accepting"

[Bonsaibreaker]

Long story short but chatting with 14 yo DD this evening about many subjects and a family members "views" came up. For background this family member in my view is racist and homophobic.
DD stated FM should be cancelled. Never allowed to speak, voice their opinion ever.

I pointed out to DD that freedom of speech means just that. We can all hold opinions others don't like but we are all free to voice, protest and gather regardless.
DD is of an age where discussion/debate is not an option apparently and if you are offended by another's views you just cancel them instead of debating or accepting their view as different to yours.

This worries me as instead of challenging different opinions the next generation are just silencing them.

YANBU = yes we are growing an intolerant society

YABU = They deserve to be cancelled

DD stated FM should be cancelled. Never allowed to speak, voice their opinion ever
I disagree. You can't stop people talking or thinking really. You can walk away or engage, it's up to you. You can avoid the person or tell them they are awful views. But you can't really stop them holding racist/homophobic opinions and views- you can just stop them from expressing them to you.

It doesn't mean you or your daughter can't tell your FM that you don't like their views and don't want to hear them

I never said it did.

I want her to tell him. That's my point. Instead of just ignoring him I want her to feel she can go no contact and say why! I want her to have that voice.

Also, I think sometimes people massively underestimate teenagers. They're not all over emotional and incapable of seeing things without nuance. Literally teaching about racism with my Year 9 classes at the moment, most are pretty clued up, comfortable with speaking about the uncomfortable, and understand that racism is about more than abuse and slurs. Apparently it's adults that need to catch up on that front.

I feel like you're getting a hard time.

I think all you want for your daughter is to challenge people for their views, get her to listen to why he says things and why he acts and then she can debate it to challenge why he is wrong?

For example, FM might say something that's a word that is not PC in this time, you will want to get your daughter to explain why you can't say that in this era.

I think all you doing is teaching your daughter is critical thinking, it's a handy tool that she'll need when she gets older.

Thing is, if it triggers you to debate with someone you find racist, then of course yoh can bow out to protect yourself . Some people actually enjoy hurting others and using their freedom of speech to do so. And sit back and watch you it like fun.You don't have to engage or give them the air time. That is not cancelling or giving up, it is being incredibly strong and showing them you are more important and looking after your energy is more important than their hot air.

There's a difference between choosing not to listen/engage at a personal level and 'cancelling' though.

Cancelling is about denying access to platforms and shouting down the voice entirely. Nothing good can ever come of that. Silencing something doesn't make it go away. The main thing 'cancelling' achieves is improving the quality of the echo chamber.

Of course racism is a difference of opinion. Some opinions are highly offensive and based on factual falsities, but that doesn't make them not opinions.

Indeed @Siameasy, that's a very good way of putting it. Your FM deserves to be shunned. It used to be the gay family members who were shunned at family events, it's about time the racist homophobes had their turn.

Sprinkle

Thank you.

Yes. I am trying to teach my DD that freedom of speech includes everyone even those we don't agree with.
I am trying to teach her she can choose to engage or not.
I am trying to teach her silence does not change anything.it appears however I am enabling abuse and racisim......gotta love AIBU

Opinion is the lowest form of knowledge.

Thank you - it wasn’t easy, but it was the right decision for me.

The OP hasn’t “exposed” her daughter to this. She isn’t forcing her to spend time with someone who is racist towards her. I understand what you mean OP.

Her uncle is kind to her and to your family. But he holds some views / beliefs that are essentially racist. He, ignorantly, doesn’t seem to have the awareness to realise that in holding these views he is being “racist” or that they could be offensive towards you.

Genuine question - those of you talking about hate speech….are all views that fall under racism, homophobia etc etc regarded as hate speech?

An example - a close family member of mine was Christian and held the view that homosexuality was not natural or right. They did not voice this out with their family home. They were not unkind to anyone, not directly homophobic. They were introduced to friends of mine who were openly gay, yet would never have been anything other than kind to them because they did not feel that anyone deserved to be treated badly. My family member was essentially a good person, who held personal views. Is that hate speech? Were they homophobic?

One of the problems with those who silence and cancel those with differing views to their own, is it means their own views are reduced to being right "because everyone else thinks the same", and they would be unable to justify or defend them.

She's a teenager at that point in development where she knows everything. You're obviously overall right about freedom of speech but she needs to grow out of her superiority complex before she'll agree with you on this or anything else

Yes. I am trying to teach my DD that freedom of speech includes everyone even those we don't agree with.

I am trying to teach her she can choose to engage or not.

I am trying to teach her silence does not change anything.

These are all good lessons OP. Keep going 👍

Sorry - that should have been @Silenceisgolden20 (I’m hopeless at the replying thing!)

This thread has depressed me. I’m mixed race and I wouldn’t subject any one of my children to listening to an old racist. If they wanted to “cancel” the FM, I’d be pleased for them. If they don’t want to hear it, why should they? Ignorance is bliss so they say.

Op. You will not change this man’s mind EVER. Give it up.

In regards to your question, this isn’t cancel culture in my eyes. This is self-preservation. Seriously not good for your child’s mental health.

One of the problems with those who silence and cancel those with differing views to their own, is it means their own views are reduced to being right "because everyone else thinks the same", and they would be unable to justify or defend them.

Quite. And there is an underlying arrogance to that. Are all their views 'right'? Would people 100/200 years into the future agree with them on that assessment? Does the term moral relativism mean anything to them?

Teenagers tend to see things as more black and white. I think we were like that too tbh. It will change as they get older.

Just going to add - if your relative is racist and homophobic they aren’t going to change their opinions because you encourage your 14yo to challenge them. They’ll find ways to demean her, and that could make it harder for her to learn how to debate these issues. Family should be a safe space. Teach her how to debate with her peers. Not someone who’s views won’t be changed now.

YANBU
I remember Nigel Farage going on question time. So many were against it but it was much more effective than ‘ cancelling ‘ him. He exposed himself, couldn’t justify his opinions and was a bit of a disaster for him. Intelligent debate is important. Shine a light on things.
Some people are racist, homophobic etc. They won’t change by lack of engagement.
As a pp pointed out, there has been a tendency to label opinions as racist, bigoted etc. where legitimate concerns are being expressed. Immigration levels and the current debate around trans issues immediately spring to mind.
Anyone who is happy to ‘cancel’ others needs to think about who has the power to make those decisions and also needs to realise that if this trend continues, they may well be cancelled themselves at some point.

Oh, and my daughter hasn't talked with her grandfather since he asked her if she'd transferred horse because she was too fat for the one she was on.

It was a mutual decision (DD, DD, DF, and me), and her GF wasn't involved in it.

Line crossed. Those were the last two granddaughters he had any contact with, given how toxic he was.

Some people are irredeemable. I'm not going to sacrifice my kids to those dinosaurs.

Do we like what they are saying? No but silencing their voice completely is not the answer as it creates an echo chamber.
*

But she can't silence him, he can say what he likes, she just shouldn't have to listen tk it if she doesn't want to. That's bot silencing someone.

@hopingbutlosing

Exactly. We are raising a generation of people who think that if someone doesn't think the same as them, they should just shut them down, and insult them.

@LittleDandelionClock

if it's racism, misogyny, homophobia etc. I will do everything in my power to shit them down and insult them.

I never said we shouldn't

She's just at that age where she doesn't know much about debate or the value of it. It's not until college/uni that you're encouraged to think about free speech and debate . Younger teenagers think they're right about everything. The problem is when they're never encouraged to consider both sides of an argument and end up as adults thinking everyone who doesn't agree with them should be silenced.