Page 14 | AIBU worry that the next generation are not actually that "accepting"

Bonsaibreaker · 2021-10-20T18:33:32+00:00

Long story short but chatting with 14 yo DD this evening about many subjects and a family members "views" came up. For background this family member in my view is racist and homophobic. DD stated FM should be cancelled. Never allowed to speak, voice their opinion ever. I pointed out to DD that freedom of speech means just that. We can all hold opinions others don't like but we are all free to voice, protest and gather regardless. DD is of an age where discussion/debate is not an option apparently and if you are offended by another's views you just cancel them instead of debating or accepting their view as different to yours. This worries me as instead of challenging different opinions the next generation are just silencing them. YANBU = yes we are growing an intolerant society YABU = They deserve to be cancelled

Original poster

Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 23:54

If you’ve been challenging him for 20 years and he still hasn’t taken any notice, maybe your daughter has the right idea.

He has taken notice but as I said his opinions are his opinions. I have managed to change his mind on a few things not many but I think its worth the effort.

OP posts:

TheKeatingFive · 20/10/2021 23:55

So people who decided to ‘shun’ her on social media shouldn’t have been allowed to do so? If you’re that keen on freedom of speech, maybe you can consider why those who had an issue with Rowling’s comments ‘shunned’ her.

As Bonsaibreaker points out, it was a witch hunt. Based on no attempt to engage, debate, understand, reason. Based only on the need to SILENCE.

An utterly futile and embarrassing little episode for those involved.

Kanaloa · 20/10/2021 23:56

Why though? Why is it worth the effort to patiently explain that you disagree that two blokes together is unnatural and not acceptable?

If you explain it once and the person disagrees then what can you say to further explain that two men should be allowed to be in love if they want to.

If you say ‘no uncle you’re wrong - it isn’t only black people in gangs.’ Then how can that ‘debate’ be furthered when he believes it is only black people in gangs and that’s ‘his opinions.’

WomanStanleyWoman · 20/10/2021 23:57

Well if it was so futile, why are you worried?

DysmalRadius · 20/10/2021 23:57

But how does she expect this silence to come about? Presumably she knows that you have been debating with him for years and he continues to spout off about these topics, so what does she think would make him stop in order to fulfil her desire for cancellation?

And actually, is that not a reasonable goal in itself? That people can hold whatever beliefs they like, but if they cause harm or distress to others then it is not appropriate to voice them a la hate speech laws? How can you tell if you have really changed someone's mind, or just persuaded them that their views are unpalatable and should be kept to themselves? Unless they go on to be a civil rights activist or member of the KKK, a racist who doesn't talk about race lives a life very similar to a non-racist don't they?

(Again - I am still pondering this (while procrastinating on some work) so I hope I am not coming across as inflammatory - rarely am I so on the fence!).

Cameleongirl · 20/10/2021 23:57

Correct me if I'm wrong, OP, but my take on what the OP is saying is that her DD is already undermining her own desire to "cancel" people whose views she disagrees with, because she loves and is happy to spend time with her racist and homophobic uncle!

The OP is trying to show her DD that people can't always be labelled inherently "good" or "bad" people (some obviously can, but many can't). My PIL don't hold the same political views as myself nor their children and voted for a certain person in 2016 (in the USA), but we're not cancelling decades of loving parenting because we fundamentally disagree with them on most issues.

If her DD wants to cut ties with her uncles, that's fine; if she wants to try to educate him, that's fine too.

Original poster

Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 23:57

So people who decided to ‘shun’ her on social media shouldn’t have been allowed to do so?

When did I say that?

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TheKeatingFive · 20/10/2021 23:58

They tried and still try to whip up a hate mob against JK. She is only safe because she is established and very rich. Other women are taken to court and lose their jobs.

Exactly

Kanaloa · 20/10/2021 23:58

To be honest it sounds like you’re just caught up in ‘debating’ him and desperately trying to change his mind when your daughter (quite rightly) doesn’t want caught up in the drama of it and sees it’s a dead end road.

Silenceisgolden20 · 20/10/2021 23:58

Op you said he sometimes apologies. Therfore he knows what he says is wrong and still does it and all you are doing is letting him. And wrapping it up in free speech.
Your daughter has the right idea, maybe she's sussed him out and not giving him space like you are.
Don't you see how fucked up it is to say he cares for her and yet are teaching her to debate his racist views? Someone she has been told cares for her? Why? What are you teaching her what is kindness?

Silenceisgolden20 · 20/10/2021 23:59

@Kanaloa

To be honest it sounds like you’re just caught up in ‘debating’ him and desperately trying to change his mind when your daughter (quite rightly) doesn’t want caught up in the drama of it and sees it’s a dead end road.

Yep, I really think this thread is going round in circles and this sums it up

TheKeatingFive · 21/10/2021 00:01

Well if it was so futile, why are you worried?

It's a very sorry reflection of the society we live in. And as Bonsaibreaker points out, others will suffer much worse consequence from this kind of behaviour.

Original poster

Bonsaibreaker · 21/10/2021 00:03

Camel

Thank you!

I am not saying FM is right and DD is wrong or vice versa.
I am trying to teach DD that you can disagree with others, debate it and either walk away or agree to disagree.
It would hurt DD immensely to lose her uncle. I know the MN collective belive I am forcing DD in to an abusive relationship but we'll its MN the home of hyperbole.

I am surprised nobody has demanded social services to be called.

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Becuna · 21/10/2021 00:04

@Cornettoninja

I think things are at a weird point of resetting, largely (imho) due to the internet and the ease of communication and being able to find people to agree with and validate almost any option.

I also think that we’ve perhaps put too much emphasis on the notion that everyone’s opinion has the same value regardless of what it’s based on and no one should have to feel bad because of someone else’s opinion.

It’s a weird time in all honesty.

I read a lot here but rarely post. This is exactly what I have been trying to get in my mind for ages but couldn’t quite get there.

Thanks @Cornettoninja

Silenceisgolden20 · 21/10/2021 00:04

@Bonsaibreaker

Camel

Thank you!

I am not saying FM is right and DD is wrong or vice versa.
I am trying to teach DD that you can disagree with others, debate it and either walk away or agree to disagree.
It would hurt DD immensely to lose her uncle. I know the MN collective belive I am forcing DD in to an abusive relationship but we'll its MN the home of hyperbole.

I am surprised nobody has demanded social services to be called.

That's not what you originally said at all. You're changing all through the thread

UmbrellaDrops · 21/10/2021 00:05

Your DD is just growing up in a generation that refuses to accept intolerance. Ask yourself what debate needs to be had Op, "freedom of speech" is something bigots often hide behind, to voice their hate and intolerance of others. Getting upset that you aren't able to be racist or homophobic is the problem, not other people not wanting to hear it.

WomanStanleyWoman · 21/10/2021 00:06

@Bonsaibreaker

So people who decided to ‘shun’ her on social media shouldn’t have been allowed to do so?

When did I say that?

You didn’t. @TheKeatingFive did.

Cameleongirl · 21/10/2021 00:07

I would ask him not to mention race nor sexual orientation - ever.

We never discuss politics with the PIL.

Original poster

Bonsaibreaker · 21/10/2021 00:08

Don't you see how fucked up it is to say he cares for her and yet are teaching her to debate his racist views? Someone she has been told cares for her? Why? What are you teaching her what is kindness?

It isn't fucked up. He does care for her she knows that it's not what I am telling her he is not my direct family member its not forced by me.
You are white.
You think we should be black and proud and never need to debate racisim. You think that because you don't face racisim.
That is not reality.
If we don't debate racisim then racisim doesn't exist.

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Silenceisgolden20 · 21/10/2021 00:09

@Bonsaibreaker

Don't you see how fucked up it is to say he cares for her and yet are teaching her to debate his racist views? Someone she has been told cares for her? Why? What are you teaching her what is kindness?

It isn't fucked up. He does care for her she knows that it's not what I am telling her he is not my direct family member its not forced by me.
You are white.
You think we should be black and proud and never need to debate racisim. You think that because you don't face racisim.
That is not reality.
If we don't debate racisim then racisim doesn't exist.

You know nothing about me

Original poster

Bonsaibreaker · 21/10/2021 00:10

Silenceisgolden20

What did I originally say then?

OP posts:

Original poster

Bonsaibreaker · 21/10/2021 00:11

You know nothing about me

I can say the same yet you feel you can pass judgement on me...

OP posts:

Silenceisgolden20 · 21/10/2021 00:11

Not once did I say we shouldn't debate racism. You are changing your thoughts in your thread constantly

mustlovegin · 21/10/2021 00:11

I wouldn’t subject any one of my children to listening to an old racist

Well, someone could accuse you of 'hate speech' against the elderly, or being ageist

Silenceisgolden20 · 21/10/2021 00:11

@Bonsaibreaker

You know nothing about me

I can say the same yet you feel you can pass judgement on me...

You're the one who started the thread!