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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU worry that the next generation are not actually that "accepting"

466 replies

Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 19:33

Long story short but chatting with 14 yo DD this evening about many subjects and a family members "views" came up. For background this family member in my view is racist and homophobic.
DD stated FM should be cancelled. Never allowed to speak, voice their opinion ever.

I pointed out to DD that freedom of speech means just that. We can all hold opinions others don't like but we are all free to voice, protest and gather regardless.
DD is of an age where discussion/debate is not an option apparently and if you are offended by another's views you just cancel them instead of debating or accepting their view as different to yours.

This worries me as instead of challenging different opinions the next generation are just silencing them.

YANBU = yes we are growing an intolerant society

YABU = They deserve to be cancelled

OP posts:
Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 23:34

I think I would rather teach him that fact, than teach your children to put up with it.

I am not teaching my children to put up with it. I am teaching them to challenge it. Even if it is a much loved family member.

OP posts:
TheKeatingFive · 20/10/2021 23:35

Yes it would have been racist 20 years about, it was just tolerated.

So how do we know that we've 'cracked' racism now? Or don't we entertain the idea that our understanding of it might continue to evolve? Again, who ultimately arbitrates?

kirinm · 20/10/2021 23:35

Yeah you lost me at 'debate racism and homophobia'. No. You're facilitating it.

WomanStanleyWoman · 20/10/2021 23:35

@TheKeatingFive

Really? Pretty sure Harry Potter books still sell in their millions.

What's your point? She was 'cancelled' by the righteous. Book sales have fuck all to do with that.

My point is that you have suggested someone was ‘cancelled’ because a group of people found her views unacceptable and decided they could no longer support her by buying her books, seeing Harry Potter films etc. You make it sound like she was hanged in a public square.

You really should read through your own comments before criticising me or questioning my maturity.

Silenceisgolden20 · 20/10/2021 23:36

I'd didn't say we cracked racism, what are you talking about?

daisyjgrey · 20/10/2021 23:36

Speech is not free when it is hate speech.

Challenge the family member yourself, don't expect your 14 year old to do it instead Hmm

If you believe that this person is well within their rights to be racist etc (and vocally at that), then your child has just as much right to believe that the person should be 'cancelled'.

Labyrinth86 · 20/10/2021 23:37

@TheKeatingFive

‘Cancel culture’, as the fashionable phrase is these days, IS challenging these views. It’s stating that racism and homophobia are unacceptable - no ifs, no buts.

Silencing/blanking/cancelling isn't challenging anything. It's running away from debate. I'm really astonished that this point has to be made.

Who gets to decide who or what views are 'acceptable'?

Homophobia and racism are hate crimes so in this case, the law gets to decide. I can't believe we have people defending these repulsive views tbh.
WomanStanleyWoman · 20/10/2021 23:38

@TheKeatingFive

Racism - unacceptable. Homophobia - unacceptable

You sound about twelve. There are layers and layers of nuance under both those headings and societal understanding changes all the time.

A lot of what would have been considered racist now wouldn't have been 20 years ago, our understanding evolves constantly:

Pathetic comment.

Does it matter that certain things weren’t considered racist 20 years ago? Racism itself was still considered wrong. Why put up with someone being knowingly racist?

TheKeatingFive · 20/10/2021 23:38

You make it sound like she was hanged in a public square.

Never said anything of the sort.

She was publicly and vocally cancelled though.

TheKeatingFive · 20/10/2021 23:39

Does it matter that certain things weren’t considered racist 20 years ago? Racism itself was still considered wrong.

How do you know your own current views won't be considered racist in 20 years, when debate has evolved even further?

Guess what, you don't.

Mantlemoose · 20/10/2021 23:40

I think it's up to each person to decide what they want to listen to /ignore/challenge. FWIW I agree with her, if someone has different beliefs/ideas to me that's fine, it's their choice and it isn't up to me to attempt them to change their views because I"m certainly not interested in them doing it to me. My DP is the opposite, he wants to debate everything with anyone who doesn't think like he does. Except me of course!

TheKeatingFive · 20/10/2021 23:41

Homophobia and racism are hate crimes so in this case, the law gets to decide

Is a white personal writing a book from a black person's POV racist though? Some would say yes. That's not illegal.

So much nuance to engage with.

Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 23:44

Cancelled doesn't mean out of her life sorry I thought I had made that clear in my OP.

DD believes he should not voice his opinions on things she doesn't agree with not that he should not be in her life. Hence why I say "no opinion, no voice"

I have challenged him many times over the last 20 years. Sometimes he apologises and to be fair does try harder to keep it to himself but they are opinions he has.
He is not and everyday fixture in our life but families are complex and not this idyllic politically correct equal society MN thinks it is.

OP posts:
WomanStanleyWoman · 20/10/2021 23:45

@TheKeatingFive

You make it sound like she was hanged in a public square.

Never said anything of the sort.

She was publicly and vocally cancelled though.

But what does cancelled mean? Has she been dropped by her publisher? Have her books been withdrawn from sale? Have TV stations stopped screening Harry Potter films?

What IS cancelling, in your view? Do you simply mean that some people have been very vocal in their disappointment in and disagreement with JK Rowling? Because that is not ‘cancelling’ someone. The people criticising her behaviour have just as much right to their views.

Kanaloa · 20/10/2021 23:47

@TheKeatingFive

Homophobia and racism are hate crimes so in this case, the law gets to decide

Is a white personal writing a book from a black person's POV racist though? Some would say yes. That's not illegal.

So much nuance to engage with.

Saying ‘it’s only black people who are in gangs is racist.’ There’s really no debate. And outside of being racist it’s stupid as well. Anyone who makes a statement like that doesn’t truly believe it, they’re saying it to be racist. Either that or they’re incredibly stupid and really believe no white person has ever been part of gang culture despite there being lots of cases of white teens (and adults) involved in gang culture.
WomanStanleyWoman · 20/10/2021 23:47

DD believes he should not voice his opinions on things she doesn't agree with not that he should not be in her life.

Good for her.

I have challenged him many times over the last 20 years. Sometimes he apologises and to be fair does try harder to keep it to himself but they are opinions he has.

If you’ve been challenging him for 20 years and he still hasn’t taken any notice, maybe your daughter has the right idea.

slashlover · 20/10/2021 23:48

Very, very few people are actually cancelled, lots of times they face backlash for a bit then carry on as normal. Cancelled is usually means someone on social media/youtube/etc. who loses a large part of their following.

WomanStanleyWoman · 20/10/2021 23:49

@TheKeatingFive

Does it matter that certain things weren’t considered racist 20 years ago? Racism itself was still considered wrong.

How do you know your own current views won't be considered racist in 20 years, when debate has evolved even further?

Guess what, you don't.

But why is that relevant to someone criticising views that ARE considered racist now?
Labyrinth86 · 20/10/2021 23:49

@TheKeatingFive

Homophobia and racism are hate crimes so in this case, the law gets to decide

Is a white personal writing a book from a black person's POV racist though? Some would say yes. That's not illegal.

So much nuance to engage with.

No. That's nothing like the overtly racist comments the OP mentioned and it wouldn't be considered systemic/institutional racism either. It could probably be classed as blacksploitation or cultural appropriation, maybe. Personally, I'd just find it odd and wouldn't read said book because I could read a book about a black person written by a black person who actually has that lived experience as a reference point.
TheKeatingFive · 20/10/2021 23:50

I'm not sure it matters how I understand 'cancelling', but in this case shunned on SM platforms. No one ever suggested it had to do with selling books.

I brought up Rowling to demonstrate that no, not everyone who is 'cancelled' is an extremist as another poster claimed.

Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 23:50

Off topic but the JK thing.

It was demanded that she be dropped by her publisher.
It was demanded that anyone who purchased her books/merchandise were literally killing people. Anything with JK attached should be burned...ring any bells?
Opinion was sought from those who made a career out of her with the cavet of hate her or you will be cancelled also...

They tried and still try to whip up a hate mob against JK. She is only safe because she is established and very rich. Other women are taken to court and lose their jobs.

OP posts:
TheKeatingFive · 20/10/2021 23:52

No. That's nothing like the overtly racist comments the OP mentioned and it wouldn't be considered systemic/institutional racism either.

But plenty of people would call it racism.

The point is there is no societally agreed understanding of what racism is in its entirety. I presume you don't think that only those who break the law are exhibiting racist behaviour?

WomanStanleyWoman · 20/10/2021 23:52

So people who decided to ‘shun’ her on social media shouldn’t have been allowed to do so? If you’re that keen on freedom of speech, maybe you can consider why those who had an issue with Rowling’s comments ‘shunned’ her.

WomanStanleyWoman · 20/10/2021 23:53

Opinion was sought from those who made a career out of her with the cavet of hate her or you will be cancelled also...

But none of this happened.

LobsterNapkin · 20/10/2021 23:54

There are a lot of people who don't know what hate speech actually is. It has a very specific definition, and what's being discussed here doesn't cut it.

We really are at the end of the liberal democratic age.