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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU worry that the next generation are not actually that "accepting"

466 replies

Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 19:33

Long story short but chatting with 14 yo DD this evening about many subjects and a family members "views" came up. For background this family member in my view is racist and homophobic.
DD stated FM should be cancelled. Never allowed to speak, voice their opinion ever.

I pointed out to DD that freedom of speech means just that. We can all hold opinions others don't like but we are all free to voice, protest and gather regardless.
DD is of an age where discussion/debate is not an option apparently and if you are offended by another's views you just cancel them instead of debating or accepting their view as different to yours.

This worries me as instead of challenging different opinions the next generation are just silencing them.

YANBU = yes we are growing an intolerant society

YABU = They deserve to be cancelled

OP posts:
Silenceisgolden20 · 21/10/2021 00:12

@Bonsaibreaker

Silenceisgolden20

What did I originally say then?

Read it back . You're changing depending on what people reply.
Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 21/10/2021 00:14

I did start the thread and you are constantly accusing me of changing my mind or saying "that's not what you said"

Tell you what Silence from now on quote me or I will just ignore your accusations.

OP posts:
Silenceisgolden20 · 21/10/2021 00:16

I can see why your daughter doesn't want the drama...she must be around lot of it. Accusations indeed.....ott

Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 21/10/2021 00:16

You're changing depending on what people reply.

I am answering posts and looking at different points of view. Yes over 10 pages that may mean I change my original view isn't that a good thing?

OP posts:
Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 21/10/2021 00:17

Silence you are clearly out for a fight and I will not engage good night.

OP posts:
Silenceisgolden20 · 21/10/2021 00:19

No, no fight from me. Not at all.
Good night. The thread had gone off on a tangent so I'll leave.

WomanStanleyWoman · 21/10/2021 00:21

@mustlovegin

I wouldn’t subject any one of my children to listening to an old racist

Well, someone could accuse you of 'hate speech' against the elderly, or being ageist

If he’s a racist and he’s old, how is it ageist to describe him as an old racist?
ddl1 · 21/10/2021 00:22

I think it depends somewhat. Your dd doesn't have the right to demand that the relative be forbidden by law or society to say anything that she finds objectionable but she may have a right to ask that certain things not be discussed in her presence, or to restrict her own contact with the relative. It depends on how intense, extreme and persistent the relative's comments are. It also depends on whether the relative thinks that they should be 'boss' and lay down the law to your dd, without her having the right to contradict; or whether they are prepared to debate civilly.

Certainly, intolerance by teenagers is not a new phenomenon. It may take different forms at different times; but it's always been quite common.

slashlover · 21/10/2021 00:22

@Bonsaibreaker

Don't you see how fucked up it is to say he cares for her and yet are teaching her to debate his racist views? Someone she has been told cares for her? Why? What are you teaching her what is kindness?

It isn't fucked up. He does care for her she knows that it's not what I am telling her he is not my direct family member its not forced by me.
You are white.
You think we should be black and proud and never need to debate racisim. You think that because you don't face racisim.
That is not reality.
If we don't debate racisim then racisim doesn't exist.

People make comments about my sexuality, sometimes people who claim to care about me. I have tried to debate but, honestly, I get so tired of it sometimes that it's better for me to just stay away from those people. If I had heard those types for comments for my entire life then the last thing I would want to do is challenge then, especially if I have heard someone else do it for 14 years. What possible point could I make that hadn't been made before?

If I don't debate with that person then I know they still feel that way about me but I don't need to hear it, or hear them double down on their views. If it was someone I loved dearly then my mental health couldn't take it.

Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 21/10/2021 00:27

I am not demanding she debate with him. That's not the issue. He was just the reason we talked about debate in general.

The issue is her reluctance to debate at all and the feeling that anyone with a different pov should just be cancelled.

OP posts:
DysmalRadius · 21/10/2021 00:27

I am trying to teach DD that you can disagree with others, debate it and either walk away or agree to disagree.

Doesn't listening to you debate it, deciding she has nothing to add and so walking away count as a valid option?

Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 21/10/2021 00:30

Doesn't listening to you debate it, deciding she has nothing to add and so walking away count as a valid option?

My original point has been lost over many pages.

It was not her reluctance to debate with him as such it was more her view that anyone with different opinions should be cancelled and not debated at all. He was just a good example.

OP posts:
DysmalRadius · 21/10/2021 00:31

The issue is her reluctance to debate at all and the feeling that anyone with a different pov should just be cancelled.

But in a world where 'being cancelled' doesn't really mean anything, how does that manifest, in a practical sense? Shouting them down with fingers in ears? Refusing to engage (basically, passive resistance)? Slagging them off online? How does a person know they have been cancelled if there is no discussion?

Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 21/10/2021 00:34

But in a world where 'being cancelled' doesn't really mean anything, how does that manifest, in a practical sense?

But it does.
People are losing their jobs. Being arrested, threatened people fear speaking out all because SM matters. Things you said 10 years ago are dragged up and used against you. While I believe everyone should be accountable who decides what is offensive and what isn't?

OP posts:
slashlover · 21/10/2021 00:34

What does cancelled mean in this context? Whenever I have heard the term, it has been in relation to someone losing followers on social media or youtube subscribers or being boycotted.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 21/10/2021 00:39

I’m curious, if anyone cares to answer… Is it better to hear things you don’t agree with and think are wrong or to not hear them? Do you think by not saying things out loud that people don’t still have the same thoughts and opinions?

Do yo think by silencing the words said out loud that that they go away? Do you believe they aren’t said aloud away from the public eye?

I’m genuinely curious about this thought process.

Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 21/10/2021 00:39

Slash I wish it was just all about social media followers.
This language is used amongst peer groups at school.
Kids are being cancelled from their friendship groups. Cutting off from SM, bullied and excluded at school. It's not confind to influencers with followers.

OP posts:
DysmalRadius · 21/10/2021 00:39

Sorry, I mean literally - how does your daughter propose these cancellations happen? What does her version of cancellation look like? Is she taking to social media and berating those with views that she doesn't like, or just saying that she hopes that is what happens to people, but at the hands of others?

Kanaloa · 21/10/2021 00:41

@Bonsaibreaker

But in a world where 'being cancelled' doesn't really mean anything, how does that manifest, in a practical sense?

But it does.
People are losing their jobs. Being arrested, threatened people fear speaking out all because SM matters. Things you said 10 years ago are dragged up and used against you. While I believe everyone should be accountable who decides what is offensive and what isn't?

This has nothing to do with whether or not your daughter is unreasonable though. There’s a difference between saying ‘I don’t want to engage with you since you think being gay is wrong and black people are criminals’ and trying to get someone sacked for disagreeing with you.
Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 21/10/2021 00:45

how does your daughter propose these cancellations happen? What does her version of cancellation look like?

She doesn't propose it.
It's the norm not her version.
No debate.
No opposing opinions allowed.
No voice unless it agrees.
No debate.
If an opinion thought or view will offend anyone then its the wrong view.

That's what my OP was about, not my racist family member but you know stuff gets lost 10 pages in Grin

OP posts:
Original poster
Bonsaibreaker · 21/10/2021 00:47

This has nothing to do with whether or not your daughter is unreasonable though

I never asked if my daughter was being unreasonable.
Read the OP.

OP posts:
Kanaloa · 21/10/2021 00:52

I have read the op. You said dd proposes fm be cancelled. Then you say she didn’t propose it.

Kanaloa · 21/10/2021 00:53

DD stated FM should be cancelled. Never allowed to speak, voice their opinion ever.

That’s what you said. Then you said she doesn’t propose it. If arguing with your relative is anything like trying to ‘debate’ you I can see why she can’t be bothered. You’re going round in circles and it’s a losing battle.

frazzlesmore · 21/10/2021 00:53

There is definitely an issue of people not wanting to accept facts that make them uncomfortable & conflating said facts with personal opinions.

I've seen it more here too eg on a thread about the American election someone said they weren't sure Trump would lose as he was popular in certain states. Another poster interpreted that as the poster was a big Trump fan & should be shamed for it.

It's factual for me to say that certain sectors of the population love Boris Johnson. It's not hateful or reflective of my own opinion.

frazzlesmore · 21/10/2021 00:55

I’m curious, if anyone cares to answer… Is it better to hear things you don’t agree with and think are wrong or to not hear them? Do you think by not saying things out loud that people don’t still have the same thoughts and opinions

Brexit was an example of people not wanting to hear opposing opinions. In more examples I thinks it's better to hear differing opinions.