Page 11 | AIBU worry that the next generation are not actually that "accepting"

Bonsaibreaker · 2021-10-20T18:33:32+00:00

Long story short but chatting with 14 yo DD this evening about many subjects and a family members "views" came up. For background this family member in my view is racist and homophobic. DD stated FM should be cancelled. Never allowed to speak, voice their opinion ever. I pointed out to DD that freedom of speech means just that. We can all hold opinions others don't like but we are all free to voice, protest and gather regardless. DD is of an age where discussion/debate is not an option apparently and if you are offended by another's views you just cancel them instead of debating or accepting their view as different to yours. This worries me as instead of challenging different opinions the next generation are just silencing them. YANBU = yes we are growing an intolerant society YABU = They deserve to be cancelled

Original poster

Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 22:49

Hang on

Where did I say FM gives racist rants?
I never once said that.
I said he passes the occasional comment regarding immigration and homosexuality not once have I said he rants.
Typical MN hyperbole.

While I disagree with FM views on immigration and homosexuality I have never once said he "rants" or preaches or causes distress to DD. He has no concept on how his views relate to us. He is ignorant not abusive.

OP posts:

godmum56 · 20/10/2021 22:51

@TheKeatingFive

laws are needed to silence views that society does not accept.

Who decides what 'society' accepts?

sounds like 1984 to me

Kanaloa · 20/10/2021 22:52

@Bonsaibreaker

Hang on

Where did I say FM gives racist rants?
I never once said that.
I said he passes the occasional comment regarding immigration and homosexuality not once have I said he rants.
Typical MN hyperbole.

While I disagree with FM views on immigration and homosexuality I have never once said he "rants" or preaches or causes distress to DD. He has no concept on how his views relate to us. He is ignorant not abusive.

So what is it he says? Could you give an example of the type of comment?

LotusPose · 20/10/2021 22:53

@Bonsaibreaker

It doesn't mean you or your daughter can't tell your FM that you don't like their views and don't want to hear them

I never said it did.

I want her to tell him. That's my point. Instead of just ignoring him I want her to feel she can go no contact and say why! I want her to have that voice.

Going no contact and saying why is basically what cancelling is…..

BoxOfDreams · 20/10/2021 22:53

DD stated FM should be cancelled. Never allowed to speak, voice their opinion ever who died and made her queen?

Original poster

Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 22:54

slash

You keep contradicting yourself. You say it's fine for her not to engage and to walk away but in the next breath sayI dont want DD to just ignore him.andWalking away is the easy option and changes very little.

I am not contradicting myself.
If DD chooses not to debate because she feels her voice would not be heard is fine. Walking away because she thinks the there is no debate to be had then that is wrong.

I expect my DD to debate any subject she is passionate about at least once. If she doesn't bother then does she really care?

OP posts:

saltinesandcoffeecups · 20/10/2021 22:57

@Bonsaibreaker

Hang on

Where did I say FM gives racist rants?
I never once said that.
I said he passes the occasional comment regarding immigration and homosexuality not once have I said he rants.
Typical MN hyperbole.

While I disagree with FM views on immigration and homosexuality I have never once said he "rants" or preaches or causes distress to DD. He has no concept on how his views relate to us. He is ignorant not abusive.

Now now OP, let everyone here tell you what is actually going on. I mean the masses know best, right?

(That was sarcasm for the benefit of those who don’t recognize it)

Seems to me to me that some of the responses here are proving your points about intolerance…. I mean, they’re telling you if your FM is a racist hate speech ranting lunatic, and totally dismissing your actual observations.

In other words you had better agree or they’ll shout you down.

Staffy1 · 20/10/2021 22:58

@SachaStark2

Racism and homophobia isn’t somebody’s “personal opinion”

Unfortunately it sometimes is. Look at how JK Rowling has been accused of being transphobic by a large group of people, yet others think she isn’t (me for one), and then there are all the people who shout “racist” about anyone concerned about immigration causing overcrowding, regardless of the race of the immigrants and when that the concerns have nothing to do with race. So the problem with cancelling people based on those criteria is are you actually correct about them?

MushMonster · 20/10/2021 23:01

You need to give particular examples because otherwise it is not making full sense.
Which kind of comments he makes?
And has he been in your DD life all her life? They know each other well or just in passing?

Again, I am not understanding why you want to almost force her to debate racism at this age. Why don't you let get grow up a bit? She may be ready by then.

DysmalRadius · 20/10/2021 23:02

Given your position on debate and discussion, why are you not prepared to accept that your daughter had a different point of view from you on how to tackle racism? Surely her desire to 'cancel' this person is about as realistic as your desire to 'educate' them so why not accept that your goal is the same but your approaches are different. After all, you acknowledge that your attempts to change your family members views haven't worked - what's to say her approach wouldn't be more effective?

slashlover · 20/10/2021 23:02

I expect my DD to debate any subject she is passionate about at least once. If she doesn't bother then does she really care?

I've walked away from certain people without challenging/debating because I know it won't change anything but will mess up my mental health.

TheKeatingFive · 20/10/2021 23:02

sounds like 1984 to me

Quite

Sittingonabench · 20/10/2021 23:03

I actually agree with you - I think the key here is what you want. Do you want an easy out and not to have to engage with it? Then cancel. do you want change? Then you have to engage, try to understand and debate. I agree that cancelling people’s opinions is lazy and does not do anything to eradicate these things. They are a cancer that will grow if ignored. And then it will the next generation who is left to deal with it but won’t be able to properly dissect root causes as they will not have learned that skill.
I think it is much more important than simple freedom of speech. People are not a hive mind, we have differences and some views are horrendous but by ignoring them and not challenging them they grow.

Original poster

Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 23:03

So what is it he says? Could you give an example of the type of comment?

Yes. Very typical really.
Usually topical.
"Read in the paper veterans are homeless while immigrats are given 4 bed houses and full benefits"
"It's always black people in gangs or drug dealing"
"I mean each to their own but its not natural two blokes'
He told my son to stay away from a certain area where we live as its a "black" area and dangerous. Yes it has very high levels of crime and very multi cultural but FM does not understand racisim plays a huge part in poverty/lack of opportunity he believes its "cos its a black area"

OP posts:

MushMonster · 20/10/2021 23:05

That is heavy OP!

MushMonster · 20/10/2021 23:05

It is not light misunderstanding, cultural stereotype

Original poster

Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 23:07

saltinesandcoffeecups

I should know better however I discussed robust debate with DD so posted in AIBU in order to show her differences of opinion.

OP posts:

MushMonster · 20/10/2021 23:10

I think it is too heavy for a young girl, teen.
OP, to be honest, you deserve to be treated better by your own family.
I get he is concern for their safety when he says do not go to that area, but then insults them in their own face! In your own face!
I feel for you and for them.

LittleDandelionClock · 20/10/2021 23:10

@SachaStark2

Racism and homophobia isn’t somebody’s “personal opinion”

Unfortunately it sometimes is. Look at how JK Rowling has been accused of being transphobic by a large group of people, yet others think she isn’t (me for one), and then there are all the people who shout “racist” about anyone concerned about immigration causing overcrowding, regardless of the race of the immigrants and when that the concerns have nothing to do with race.

So the problem with cancelling people based on those criteria is are you actually correct about them?

Well said @Staffy1

TheKeatingFive · 20/10/2021 23:12

The very word 'cancel' is so insidious. Do people not see that? By what rights does anyone claim authority to 'cancel' someone else?

Kosmin · 20/10/2021 23:12

@jcyclops
One of the problems with those who silence and cancel those with differing views to their own, is it means their own views are reduced to being right "because everyone else thinks the same", and they would be unable to justify or defend them.

Only if they cancel everyone who disagrees with them. I'm not sure anyone has ever done that outside of a totalitarian regime.

Usually people try to cancel extremists and acknowledge there are others who disagree with them who cannot - and should not - be cancelled.

MushMonster · 20/10/2021 23:12

When you have talked to him in the past, does it have any effect on him?
If not, not to cancel people, but for your own sake, don't you think is time to give up?

saltinesandcoffeecups · 20/10/2021 23:13

@Bonsaibreaker

saltinesandcoffeecups

I should know better however I discussed robust debate with DD so posted in AIBU in order to show her differences of opinion.

And proving your point quite eloquently, I might add. Well you are certainly able to give her examples of rabid sanctimony from this thread 😉

If this doesn’t show her the dark side of cancel culture I’m not sure if anything will.

Original poster

Bonsaibreaker · 20/10/2021 23:18

Mush

^I think it is too heavy for a young girl, teen.
OP, to be honest, you deserve to be treated better by your own family.^

She is 14 isn't it better she learns now when she is exposed to social media and the toxic environment and I can still guide her/have influence?

We are not treated badly that's just MN interpretation. It's always black or white abusive/or saintly stance.
DDs uncle adores her she knows that hence why she is struggling with his ad hoc comments. As I said he is ignorant not abusive.

OP posts:

WomanStanleyWoman · 20/10/2021 23:19

@Bonsaibreaker

They have freedom of speech. We all should.

Do we like what they are saying? No but silencing their voice completely is not the answer as it creates an echo chamber.

I am trying to teach my daughter that she may hear views and opinions that do not match her own and if she has the beans than talk back. If not then walk away. However silencing opposing views is not the answer.

‘Cancel culture’, as the fashionable phrase is these days, IS challenging these views. It’s stating that racism and homophobia are unacceptable - no ifs, no buts.

I expect my DD to debate any subject she is passionate about at least once. If she doesn't bother then does she really care?

She is not ‘not bothering’. She just knows her own mind. She doesn’t need to ‘engage’ or debate’ with a bigot on these topics. When did it become so controversial to just state bigotry is wrong - no exceptions?

I hope this family member is valuable to you. You may need him when your daughter realises that you made his bigotry her fault.