AIBU worry that the next generation are not actually that "accepting"

[Bonsaibreaker]

Long story short but chatting with 14 yo DD this evening about many subjects and a family members "views" came up. For background this family member in my view is racist and homophobic.
DD stated FM should be cancelled. Never allowed to speak, voice their opinion ever.

I pointed out to DD that freedom of speech means just that. We can all hold opinions others don't like but we are all free to voice, protest and gather regardless.
DD is of an age where discussion/debate is not an option apparently and if you are offended by another's views you just cancel them instead of debating or accepting their view as different to yours.

This worries me as instead of challenging different opinions the next generation are just silencing them.

YANBU = yes we are growing an intolerant society

YABU = They deserve to be cancelled

OP, honest question here:
Why have you found that you need to debate your existance?
And which racism are you experiencing? And your children?

I have to say I very few times in my life have listened someone expressing racist views. Only one occurrence of an idiot spatting at us (mixed couple, white and asian) for no reason. But otherwise, I cannot see any racism in today's UK. Neither my child has ever expressed any concerns.
I actually wonder if I am missing any signs.

But, if you feel you need to debate your own existence, as a mixed race, hell no! I would not bother OP! Specially if it is within your oen family. They had tome enough to accept it by now.

It is well known in psychology that not only does debating someone's views with facts not change their minds, it actually entrenches their existing views and makes them LESS likely to ever agree with you. All this debate with racists etc actually makes their awful views stronger.

Legislation against hate speech etc is needed BECAUSE debate doesn't work and therefore laws are needed to silence views that society does not accept.

What does "he should be cancelled" actually mean? How do you "cancel" a normal everyday person?

BoredZelda

Debating with racists/homophobes is pointless. They aren’t going to change their view and all that happens is you have to hear more of their hate filled bullshit. Funny how your love of freedom of speech doesn’t extend to your daughter’s right to have an opinion on how racists should shut the fuck up.

Do you think racisim and homophobia should never be challenged?
See that's the problem
Everyday racisim for example is just that. It is never challenged by anyone so I face it daily.
If we all spoke out. Challenged it then maybe not everyday of my week would include racisim. Staying silent does not solve the problem.

I hope it's clear from my post that I was simply quoting what my PILs were saying.

Cancel her.
Tell her you think her opinion on this one matter means her opinion on anything else is void.
Tell her you don’t want to debate it. You don’t want to hear her side.
She’s cancelled.

See if anything twigs.

OP, honest question here:
Why have you found that you need to debate your existance?
And which racism are you experiencing? And your children?

I do not debate my existence. I of course exist. I debate my right not to be judged by the colour of my skin.

Which racisim? Sorry are there different forms of racisim? Do I need to pick a group? Direct racisim? Indirect racisim?

[quote hopingbutlosing]@LittleDandelionClock

You may not have liked those views, but they are still entitled to them.

Wow. [/quote]
Oh WOW yourself!

What I was referring to - as you have chosen to cherry pick only the tiny bit of my post that suited your agenda - is a poster saying they have a family member didn't understand why black people were pulling down statues, they were worried about too many 1000s of illegal immigrants being allowed to stay in the UK, and they didn't care to see gay men kissing on tv.

I said they are entitled to these views, because they are. They should be entitled to them without being lambasted, hated, and cancelled! Neither you or anyone else gets to tell them they are racist or bigoted because they DARE to have a view that doesn't make them massive sycophants to POC, and the gay community ...

@LuchiMangsho

My humiliations are not a ‘teachable moment’ for anyone. This thread is truly depressing.

Then I think it may be better for you to hide the thread if it's affecting you.

Hopefully some people don't go reporting to take it down when some of us are fine with having the discussion.

laws are needed to silence views that society does not accept.

Who decides what 'society' accepts?

I can’t even vote as your OP is so stupid.

Freedom of speech is important. For the fight of people’s rights…..

I’d absolutely encourage your daughter to convey her feelings as she wishes, and if that includes no interactions with racist and homophobic family members I’d say you should join her
Homophobia and racism fight against rights

But obviously you ‘telling him he’s wrong’ isn’t making a difference. He’s still racist. How many times do you want to ‘debate’ him so that he will see people of all races and skin colours as equal? To be honest it seems like a pointless endeavour and I can see why your daughter doesn’t want to cheerfully debate uncle Tim over every family game night about why black people have as much right to xyz as white people.

Interesting this topic comes up on the day I heard about Margaret Atwood finds herself on the wrong side of public opinion.

I’ve often wondered why those so quick to shut down others are so shocked when they find themselves on the wrong side of cancel culture.

www.newsweek.com/handmaids-tale-author-margaret-atwood-faces-backlash-gender-neutrality-tweet-1640518

OP you say you have relentlessly chalk ahead these views yourself…. It’s got you no where. Your DD is doing okay wrong in cutting them off. Such hateful views should be kept lonely.

You worded it as debating your existance earlier in your own post. Of course I understand you meant as being mixed race.
I would not bother.

I meant, which particular offences you face? Any examples?

As I said, I do not feel treated in a racist way daily, at all. Though similar background to yours. I consider myself very lucky on this, I know!

I have a homophobic racist misogynistic fm and I'm afraid I will not listen to offensive rants and nor should I have to I am 100% not interested in hearing the argument for racism I don't care what they think and I am not going to listen to it ever

@Kanaloa

But obviously you ‘telling him he’s wrong’ isn’t making a difference. He’s still racist. How many times do you want to ‘debate’ him so that he will see people of all races and skin colours as equal? To be honest it seems like a pointless endeavour and I can see why your daughter doesn’t want to cheerfully debate uncle Tim over every family game night about why black people have as much right to xyz as white people.

Exactly this. I don't enter into debates or discussions with bigots in an attempt to change their views because I'm quite aware that would never work. I value my time too much.

But OP, I do see your point that not challenging these people may lead them to believe their views are acceptable.

For that reason, in circumstances where I feel it is safe to do so (such as Uncle Tim at a family game night) I will angrily tell the bigot to shut the fuck up.

Good compromise?

BurmtO

I can’t even vote as your OP is so stupid.

But you still took the time to comment...who's the stupid one?

She doesn't have to.
Truth is she loves him. It may be hard for you to understand and I am not expecting you to. He is a kind man who does not see his views on immigration or gay relationships as directly related to his own family. However they do matter.

You keep contradicting yourself. You say it's fine for her not to engage and to walk away but in the next breath say I dont want DD to just ignore him. and Walking away is the easy option and changes very little.

Maybe she doesn't want to engage because she loves him. If she's confronted openly with his viewpoints then she may feel as if she has not choice but to go NC with him. If she never hears his opinions then she can choose to still interact with him. She's protecting herself.

There's a massive difference between not engaging with racists, and teenagers 'cancelling' women like JKR because someone on tiktoc told them she was as bad as Hitler.

Cancel culture has come about as a method of silencing women, from a group who's ideology is completely unprovable and has not one coherent, logical meaning. As it doesn't stand up to any scrutiny, they can only threaten and shut down any debate or discussion.

For example, a male telling a lesbian she should date or have sex with them is blatently rapey and homophobic and should be called out as such. So why do people get weird blinkers on if the male claims to be a woman as if this somehow makes the homophobia acceptable?

@Bonsaibreaker

BurmtO

I can’t even vote as your OP is so stupid.

But you still took the time to comment...who's the stupid one?

@Whatsnewpussyhat

There's a massive difference between not engaging with racists, and teenagers 'cancelling' women like JKR because someone on tiktoc told them she was as bad as Hitler.

Cancel culture has come about as a method of silencing women, from a group who's ideology is completely unprovable and has not one coherent, logical meaning. As it doesn't stand up to any scrutiny, they can only threaten and shut down any debate or discussion.

For example, a male telling a lesbian she should date or have sex with them is blatently rapey and homophobic and should be called out as such. So why do people get weird blinkers on if the male claims to be a woman as if this somehow makes the homophobia acceptable?

this. ^

Are people actually going around telling mixed race people they shouldn't exist ?

@Blackberrycream

That was my thought too. There is nothing wrong with different opinions on those events.

I do see an issue with the statues as there is something celebratory about them. I don’t want them torn down though as I worry the revisionism will then extend to art and literature. That’s my opinion. I can see other points of view have validity too.

Some of the older members on one side of my family had what I would call racist views. They have mellowed as they are essentially nice people who hadn’t had much exposure. They definitely have exposure now ( it’s a mixed Jamaican and Irish family)and the turnaround has happened naturally.

Personally, I find privileged, white middle class social warriors extremely irritating. Things improve by us all being tolerant and self reflective. The self reflection is often quite lacking.

This in spades. ^ particularly the last paragraph. The middle class 'social justice warriors' are extremely irksome - and cut from the same irritating cloth. Those eejits who blocked roads, and did all sorts of 'protests' for the environment, consisted of people who live/lived off mummy and daddy's money, who have a trust fund, who had a gap yar backpacking around South America. And they are often full-time 'Activists.'

It has to be said, the vast majority of the far-left liberal woke brigade, (no matter what their age,) ALWAYS come from a place of privilege and wealth. They never consist of Dave who works as a delivery driver for Tesco, Steve the window cleaner, Sharon with 2 teen kids, who works in a factory and gets £250 a week, and Sarah, the admin assistant who (along with the others) will never get on the housing ladder. It's almost ALWAYS the middle class/well off/privelged, who are these 'woke' social justice warriors.

I also deliberately refer to myself as an immigrant rather than an expat (stupid nonsense)

Agree. Complete white supremacist nonsense.

Can't be seen as a "lowly immigrant" when you're doing the same thing as any other immigrant - living and working in a foreign country for a better life/pay/home.🙄