To not let daughter go and get ice cream?

[iamfamousnow]

My daughter has just turned 8 and her attitude is atrocious recently. She got her hoverboard and screen time removed from her all of last week over the October hols due to her bad behaviour. Calling me stupid, talking back, arguing with everything I say. Her dad came around and removed hoverboard and she hadn't had screen time all week and was to write a paragraph each day of what she had done that day to help me.

She wrote a paragraph one day. When her dad came to pick her up Friday he sat with her whilst she did the other three paragraphs and so when she went to his house for the weekend he gave her back her hoverboard and screen time.

This morning when he was dropping her back off to me he said she had lost them again today due to her behaviour this morning, getting angry and shouting at him. He then said if she was good for me today that he would pick her up tonight and take her for an ice cream.

She's been okay, however, as I was making her lunch she came into the kitchen and sang, 'my mum is an A S S H O L E' I said 'that's enough, that's not nice'. She then did it again. I said okay no Ice cream now and she was screaming and crying saying she is sorry and was only joking.

Now I have to admit I've been a very laid back parent probably to a fault, we are more friends usually than mother and daughter which is not a good thing. That's why I am now trying to be a lot stricter and come down hard and stick to what I say. However I don't really know how to do that. What a reasonable punishment is and I always feel so guilty punishing her.

I wasn't raised with boundaries so it's hard to implement them in my house.

AIBU to stop her from going for ice cream if she was only joking?

I'm sorry to here this hope your okay now , has she got any other siblings as she could be annoying you as it's the only way to get your attention and she could be feeling lonely , do you invite her friends round to play

@iamfamousnow

I don't think you were unkind *@PleasantBirthday* I agree with what you said. It's very hard being a parent. I constantly worry if I'm doing the right thing. I worry about messing her up in anyway and I'm not a perfect parent and am aware of my shortcomings but I genuinely love her and try my hardest and am going to work on being stronger as it will benefit her in the long run even if it's hard for me. Thank you.

Everyone feels like that. My mother, for example, has some regrets about how she brought us up. She did her best and she did a good job but that's all any of us can do, I mean, even if you were the perfect parent, what would that mean? Children also have to get some reality, live with imperfection, cope with unfairness, other people also having lives, emotions and faults. If they don't, they will not ever be able to have romantic relationships, working relationships, proper friendships because they would expect an ideal that no human can ever meet.

Ultimately, we might not do the right thing but if we do the best we know we'll probably do it OK.

I think what might be helpful is agreeing with her df that punishments stay in the house they were earned.

It sounds like you are getting lumped with punishments while he does the nice stuff.

8yo is old enough to cope with slightly delayed punishments, so if she looses a privilege for a day for her behaviour at her df's I'd expect it to be her next day with him, and the same if you use a punishment.

Obviously there might be accepting for extremely serious behaviour like getting into fights at school or something like that.

@iamfamousnow so he gets loosen the punishments you instilled and then put in place new ones that you have to impose.

I think if you have decided you want to parent with more boundaries, you need a full family discussion so that you don't become the bad cop and punisher and he gets to not do the heavy lifting as well.

It sounds all very tense and combative between you. How about using more carrot than stick? If she is constantly being punished and having things taken away and can never get it right, perhaps she thinks "may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb" and it actually makes her more badly behaved. Also I'm sure it doesn't make for a pleasant family life for you either, all this stress and punishment. Her self-esteem is probably quite low and she might even feel that you fon't like her very much.

I'd say give treats and praise when she is behaving well, and just let some things go, pick your battles.

OP, I just opened Instagram and randomly saw this from a child psychologist I follow, and it seems so relevant to your thread — I don’t know if you can read it but will try to post a screenshot.

(I follow her because I often need reminding of this stuff myself)

Something is going on for this little girl OP.

Have you done any work with her on emotional literacy? Have you taught her any self regulation skills? I get the impression she needs some more effective (than pushing you away and expressing her anger through swearing) coping skills for big bad feelings.

Op did anything change Three to four weeks ago?

As other PP have said, it's worth getting to the bottom of what is actually going on.
Also, you're not her best mate; you're her mother. The blurred boundaries just confuse children.

I’d agree something is going on. Kids don’t just decide to be cheeky for a month, and she wasn’t cheeky she was shouting and angry,

You need to try to get to understand what’s caused it. Something happened in her life a few weeks ago that she’s struggling with.

Although writing a paragraph a day to say how she’s helped you is very odd. Yes she should do little chores Ie tidy her stuff away, help set thr table etc but she’s a little girl her role isn’t to help you. She’s not your housemate.

Your 8yrnold called you an asshole and you’re considering letting her go for ice cream. You’re a huge part of the problem. Parents like you raise children who think they can do what they want without consequences and then release them onto society and that’s not right.

First off she needs to be punished for the bad language. And then she needs to be punished for disrespecting her mother.

You’re not her friend. You’re her mother and you need to actually parent her. You can perhaps be friends when she is an adult, but right now she needs you to parent and set boundaries and show her that there are consequences.

She will go out into the world not understanding how to treat people and not understanding that you can’t mistreat people and do what you want if you don’t get your way.

So I would say punishment or no ice cream and no hover board or screen time. If she uses foul language and disrespects her mother then she shouldn’t ever get those privileges back until she learns how to behave.

@DirtyDancing

Bloody hell. My DS is 8 next month and still thinks the word poo is funny. I'd be mortified if he even knew the word asshole let alone call me an arsehole. No one here seems as shocked as me though!

I'd be banning Christmas let alone screen time; I think DH & I would hit the roof, the hover board would be going to the charity shop. I'm not even that strict, but this is unacceptable

Well you obviously are really strict if you're getting rid of a hoverboard and cancelling Christmas due to the use of the word asshole.

Cancelling Christmas because your kid called you an asshole? I know we all parent differently but that level of reaction seems ridiculous to me, even said tongue in cheek. It's the power dynamic that feels wrong. Your kid has pissed you off so you get to take away their stuff, ban them from doing things they're looking forward to etc etc. What, ultimately, does this teach them? What would your punishment be if you let your frustrations get the better of you and said something you later regretted? I'm not against consequences full stop and do use them with my child (device bans mainly) but I do think they have to be used a bit sparingly, in a context that allows for a bit of forgiveness if the child is genuinely contrite, and within an overarching understanding that you are not in fact super angry but are playing a role, to a certain extent.

“Parenting her” isn’t mainly about punishing her, though. Even if half the time that’s what people on here use the word to mean.

Parenting a child who’s acting out of character, at a time of huge upheaval, is really about putting in the effort to get to the bottom of what’s wrong and tackle it — so that the behaviour actually improves of its own accord. Not just trying to punish the behaviour out of existence with authoritative I Am The Parent flexing. That simply does not work.

I think the OP just needs a plan, and more confidence in how to meet her child’s needs. Telling her “parents like her” are hugely culpable, and society is suffering as a result, is not helpful.

@MarshmallowSwede

Your 8yrnold called you an asshole and you’re considering letting her go for ice cream. You’re a huge part of the problem. Parents like you raise children who think they can do what they want without consequences and then release them onto society and that’s not right.

First off she needs to be punished for the bad language. And then she needs to be punished for disrespecting her mother.

You’re not her friend. You’re her mother and you need to actually parent her. You can perhaps be friends when she is an adult, but right now she needs you to parent and set boundaries and show her that there are consequences.

She will go out into the world not understanding how to treat people and not understanding that you can’t mistreat people and do what you want if you don’t get your way.

So I would say punishment or no ice cream and no hover board or screen time. If she uses foul language and disrespects her mother then she shouldn’t ever get those privileges back until she learns how to behave.

See this is where I don't really agree. This catastrophising that your child is going to turn into a delinquent if you don't confiscate their stuff because they're pushing boundaries and trying out different roles for size just doesn't ring true for me. They need reminding what is acceptable and what is not, and they need support to better learn how to regulate their emotions but I really don't see my role as a heavy handed authority figure with carrots and sticks as my main tools.

@LemonJuiceFromConcentrate

“Parenting her” isn’t mainly about punishing her, though. Even if half the time that’s what people on here use the word to mean.

Parenting a child who’s acting out of character, at a time of huge upheaval, is really about putting in the effort to get to the bottom of what’s wrong and tackle it — so that the behaviour actually improves of its own accord. Not just trying to punish the behaviour out of existence with authoritative I Am The Parent flexing. That simply does not work.

I think the OP just needs a plan, and more confidence in how to meet her child’s needs. Telling her “parents like her” are hugely culpable, and society is suffering as a result, is not helpful.

Crossed posts but I totally agree

If my 8 year old called me an asshole they'd never see their hoverboard again, never mind having it removed overnight

@longestlurkerever

I do think it’s a bad sign if your 8yr old is calling you an asshole, sorry. This shows me a lack of boundaries and a lack of respect for the parent. Which is a slippery slope to disregard and disrespect in the teen years and heading to a lack of respect for rules and order.

So you have to correct this behaviour now. In 10years she will be written off as a bad one and perhaps get into trouble with society who don’t tolerate and respond well to those who can’t respect others.

In general, an 8yr old should know better than to even dare call their own mother such a word. This is not acceptable at all. Joking or not.

And learning boundaries and how to respect ones parents is a great foundation on learning how to function in society as a whole.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I am not pretending to be an expert in this stuff, my dd is not much older than the dd in the OP, but I don't see the same slippery slope you do. I see a snapshot of a child pushing boundaries, trying out new words and a new attitude on for size. I think you'd need way more data points before you can predict a life of crime and disorder. And, also, you also assume that punishment = learning not to do it again, whereas all the studies seem to suggest that is a false assumption.

Never mind the ice cream the child wouldn't have had any lunch!

I would be six feet under had I dared to utter that sentence about my Mom or Dad-she may be getting precociously hormonal and I'd check to see other signs like breast development or body hair just in case. It's good you and her father are a United front

I don't think it's useful for posters to tie themselves in knots about how offensive the word asshole is. She's only 8, she's learning about the world and she might not know the contexts behind each word she knows yet, and when and how it's appropriate to use them. I remember being very told off for using a word when I was a child because I hadn't realised then it was significantly more offensive than other words I knew. All I needed was information about the word I was using; the telling off pissed me off and certainly didn't help.

Taking away lunch, Christmas and her possessions aren't going to help what sounds like an unsettled child learn how to act and cope with her feeling. People on Mumsnet always come on thread and talk about bigger and longer punishments, but that won't get to why you child is behaving how she is.

But @MarshmallowSwede, all your phrasing sounds like you’re starting from a point of expecting the worst from a child. Like children who act out will inevitably go to the bad if they aren’t corrected out of it with punishment.

It’s a leap to say that you know why a young child calling their parent an asshole is doing it (in your view, it’s because they lack boundaries and have no respect). That’s one possible set of reasons, and it’s one that assumes the worst of the child, characterises them as lacking in some way and needing punishment to bring them into line.

There are in fact plenty of other reasons why the child might be doing it. In this case the child is clearly already struggling with confusing messages about her behaviour from her recently separated parents, is probably still adjusting to their split, and has already been given a raft of randomly applied punishments that make no sense. She’s probably acting out, clumsily expressing feelings she can’t articulate. You are saying the parents should heap more punishments on top of that? How will that help?

@EKGEMS

I would be six feet under had I dared to utter that sentence about my Mom or Dad-she may be getting precociously hormonal and I'd check to see other signs like breast development or body hair just in case. It's good you and her father are a United front

The level of aggression and violence on some posts, like that one, is shocking OP, obviously no ice cream. But also stop with the writing of paragraphs. What’s that about? It’s not school. Are you trying to punish her by writing? That’s terrible. And it’s not her job to help you. She’s a child. You need to help her and get to the bottom of what is wrong.