BF's relationship with his Mom- red flag or not?

[Evangeli]

Dating for three years now. Everything lovely, great company, great sex, similar tastes blah blah blah. talking about buying a house and moving in together when time is right. BUT (there's always a but, right?).
BF is an only child. Never married, no kids. He's 42, fully-functioning and capable. Are these red flags?

Mom has a key to his apartment and pops in and out - a couple of times walking in on us although I understand now she texts and that hasn't happened in the recent past.
Mom does a lot of his housework, right down changing his sheets and doing his laundry.
Mom has full knowledge son’s eating habits and sleeping schedule, not to mention arranging his car check-ups, medical and bank appointments. (I know because she'll call while I'm with him, or he'll even mention it himself, not seeing anything odd about this).

i've told him point-blank that you realise if we actually do end up living together this won't continue and he says oh yes I know.

One of our biggest fights happened when he was with his mom, mentioned he was tired, he was seeing me later that night, and she went on at him about cancelling with me since he's tired and needs an early night, to the extent that "just to get her to leave me alone" he texted me and cancelled while he was still with her. I found that very disrespectful and inappropriate. We did end up seeing each other later, and he wasn't tired at all.

I remember reading a novel by an Irishwoman- very fun read (can't remember her name) and she makes fun of the "Irish Catholic Mammy" or the ICM for short, who does her son's laundry etc- that fits BF's mom perfectly (she is of Irish descent and is catholic).

My mom (now dead) was very interfering and overbearing in her own way, but not to this level detail (honestly tho maybe she would be if I'd let her), plus we are four siblings, so very different dynamic.

What do you think?

"he should know at this point than to expect me to "take over"."

He sounds like the type who needs it spelling out. Has he spent much time at your place? I doubt if he will cope with what living together would bring, in terms of noise and mess. He would definitely expect you to step up.

I have a friend who is very intimately involved in her adult son’s life. She speaks to him 4 times a day and holidays with him at every available opportunity. She supervises almost everything he does. IMO, re your ‘future MIL’ ….her son is the husband she never had…..mammy won’t give up this special relationship, her husband is the 3rd person in the marriage.

In a boyfriend aged late teens/early 20's this would be slightly concerning... it would put my dd aged 20 off a chap.

In a 42 year old?! Run!

No no no no no

I recognise the archetype as a scot of Irish descent raised Catholic myself

My mum COULD have been this way with bro but he nipped it in the bud himself

At 40-odd? Nah he likes it this way and you'll be framed as unreasonable for actually expecting it to change if you live together/marry

This may well be WHY he's this age never having married or had dc!

Do you know what happened with his previous relationships?

High possibility mum "saw them off"

I agree even IF you get him to cut the umbilical cord finally, then he will be pretty useless as a partner/father cos he's never HAD to do the drudge work!

There's close...and there's enmeshed! This sounds far more like enmeshment

he says he can't stop her

He could if he wanted to of course he could! He could speak to her, he could even take his key off her. He's far more reluctant to "upset" her than you

It's irrelevant that he "knows" you're not a tidy type, he'll still expect either you take over OR accept that she will still be doing all she is now

You don't seem compatible generally I think if you moved in there'd soon be massive tensions

His dad is probably distant because he long ago accepted his role as a sideline character

I would agree, this is all VERY dysfunctional.

It borders on covert/emotional incest to be honest!

Seems like he hasn’t ‘transitioned’ to having an ‘adult to adult’ relationship with his mum

Totally agree - I've also studied TA and that totally fits

Hard rule: never ever move in with a man who is not doing his own cleaning, cooking and laundry, and to a standard you respect

That's a pretty good rule

Frankly if I knew him in real life I'd be telling him to get loads of therapy

I'm well acquainted with Irish Catholic mammies and I would advise you to put this one back on the shelf, he's ruined. He's not "fully functioning" as you say as he's never had to be and at 42+ it's too late to change him.

You will never be equal domestic partners as that will forever be seen as "women's work". Do not use set any circumstance have children with this man unless you plan on being a carbon copy of his mother. You have been warned!

I would be very reluctant to move in with a man under these circumstances. There are many things to consider. It’s likely this level of babying him would continue after you are living together and it would drive me nuts. Plus he is a 42-year-old man who has never learned to take care of himself and his own home. Who do you think he will expect to take over when she can no longer do it? You of course. That would surely cause friction.

If you really want to live with him, maybe tell him that he needs to demonstrate that he can do his own washing, ironing, cleaning etc and that isn’t done by his mum before you can move in together. He can still be close to her, meet her for coffee etc, but that you want to see a more independent version of him. Otherwise, the living in separate apartments in the same building might be the best option.

Maybe just moving in the same building would be great or carrying on as it is!
I wouldnt want to move in with him the way you describe him! You’d be in the middle of him and his mum. The cons outway the pros in this case

One of the things that would worry me is when his mum becomes elderly and cannot do things the same including her own house. Would you be expected to step up or even have her move in with you. Not fully au fait with the Canadian health and welfare system but it would be a lot less expensive for them to move in with you or maybe want her son to move in with them to look after them. A Facebook I am in for elderly parents has a lot of dils having a venting session about their mil living with them. Seems very common for Canada and the States. Can't see your bf doing any personal care. Can you?

"he says he can't stop her

He could if he wanted to of course he could! He could speak to her, he could even take his key off her. He's far more reluctant to "upset" her than you"

Well yes. That's what he says. He says she gets far too upset if he tries to "stop" her and it's easier just to "go along with it".

I am assuming he does actually know how to clean and launder and make car appointments, after all he is holding down a fairly taxing job in education for many years. Again, it's just "easier" to let mom do that stuff. After all, why not. And as she said to me on one of our pleasant get-togethers, she "worries about him so much, working so hard with all those children". Another piece of context is that he had a horrible illness in his teens (I don't know how to spell it- long bouts of nausea and dizziness) which almost killed him lasted for months, as well as a nasty rockclimbing accident which shattered his knee and left him with a limp, so the mom is "understandably" over-protective (?)

@MrsClatterbuck
Interesting point re future. He just saw us arrange for our elderly dad to move into full-time care after a bad fall, breaking hip and surgery not recovering leaving him fully wheelchair-bound (the crisis I mentioned earlier) - we both know personal care etc is not on the cards. Although he does glorify his auntie who took care of his grandma till her dying day.

He is "woke" and "feminist" - I've never heard him spout stuff about "women's work" etc- but I think posters above who said his words and actions seem quite different might have a point.

His last serious relationship ended when she wanted to move away to a big city and he never wants to leave here. That was several years ago- he's been without a long-term relationship for years until he met me because he says he was too busy with his education and career.

I wouldn't necessarily hold it against him that he didn't marry/doesn't have kids- plenty of women in their forties are in the same boat!

Yes I do the domestic labour -and I bloody well hate it. I have a cleaner once a week for heavy stuff, and I like cooking tho'. Kids do some chores and the amount of energy to get them to do it might as well do it myself.

Oh and no question of having children with this man or anyone else. Had my tubes tied after DS and unplanned pregnancies :)

@Monkeymilkshake

Maybe just moving in the same building would be great or carrying on as it is! I wouldnt want to move in with him the way you describe him! You’d be in the middle of him and his mum. The cons outway the pros in this case

Moving in the same building does sound ideal it's just such a double expense. And what is the justification for it? "I love you but you and your mom remind me of Norman Bates and his mom"? :)

@LawnFever

OP, having a spare key to a family members house is pretty normal, for emergencies etc but this level of involvement from her is on a whole other level!

I totally agree And if things progress with your relationship you'll have one of two problems 1) her interfering 2) him being so lazy he's been used to her doing it all he'll expect you to do it

I'd be having a serious think about this

Well yes. That's what he says. He says she gets far too upset if he tries to "stop" her and it's easier just to "go along with it".

This paragraph could be written about any number of poor partners/husbands on Mumsnet threads throughout the years. It could be about any particular behaviour on the part of the mother. But this is the crux of the issue - he doesn't want to upset his mummy much more than he doesn't want to upset you (though why a forty something man washing his own dirty undies would "upset" anyone is another question). Your example of HER not being made uncomfortable seeing your underwear, and thus him not thinking it's a problem despite the fact it bothers you, illustrates this perfectly.

If you want to pursue this relationship I'd agree that your options are to a) continue living separately (although that's quite limiting on your relationship, and doesn't make financial sense as you say) or b) insist he makes changes BEFORE you move in together (perhaps suggesting he sustains then for a minimum of a year so that he does have to do everything that comes up in life, annual insurance renewals etc.). There is no way on earth I would agree to move in with him in the short term with no changes being made in advance though.

The mum isn't going to be your problem but he's 100% going to be.

Because he's never going to say 'no', or 'please don't do that' - but defer to her for 'an easy life'.

Case in point a 42 year old cancelling a date because his mum says he'll be too tired?! Keep repeating that to yourself!

@Evangeli I get the impression that you plan to go ahead and live with him anyway. Bear in mind that every reply on this thread has warned you against it. The alarm bells are ringing loudly!

Oh gosh I've just noticed the Big Important Job alert as to why she does his admin!

No, no, no! Don't buy or perpetute this crap narrative of important jobs and an easy life' and not wanting to upset anyone.

People have jobs, and do shopping and paperwork. Their parents don't do this for them.

He is the co-creator of this relationship, no matter what he says.

i've told him point-blank that you realise if we actually do end up living together this won't continue and he says oh yes I know.....

because you'll pick up where mummy left off

@AnnieSnap oh the alarm bells are ringing loud and clear. But moving in isn't happening in the short-term, more of a medium/long term prospect, at least until DS15 generally has a sense of what is going to happen after he's done high school. Our current place is too small for the 3 of us anyway. Ideally bf could be moving closer in this period, so we have a "trial run" of being quite geographically close to each other with our lives more intertwined, and then over the next 3-4 years we might be planning to move in.

This might give me time to "sort out" the Mommy dearest problem :)

It's pretty clear to me that as things are right now, jumping into a live-in-together situation would be disastrous on many fronts.

@Nayday LOL "Big Important job" alert! My job is actually bigger and importanter (I outearn him by about 30%) but nobody does my life admin... I wish. His job is definitely more stressful though, mine doesn't deal with public and is more of office job.

He's seen how I live and heard me complain about housework and forms and "mental load" shite, he has to be VERY dense to think I'll pick up where mommy drops dead off

His general approach right now is "yes I let Mom do all this stuff because she likes it and it makes my life easier, but I could do it myself if I had to it's really not a big deal and can we drop it."

So he fobs you off and deflects. There is no compelling evidence he’ll take on these tasks.ever . He will try leave it to you.can you see that
He’s a chancer who thinks sorting his life is women’s work

What I think is that you’ve said nothing which makes me concerned by your partner’s mum. Your partner has enjoyed his mum's cosseting and she’s clearly enjoyed continuing to look after him. It seems to me that your partner has a very close relationship with his mum, is this what concerns you? If you really love this man and his mum is super important to him you wouldn’t want to cause him pain by making his relationship with her difficult.
Do you expect him to distance her? If you do then I don’t think that’s very caring of you, in fact it’s unkind and selfish in my opinion.
Why not give this woman a chance? I suspect that there are two things which really matter to her firstly that her boy is happy and secondly that she can still be a part of his life. Is that really too much to ask?
If you can get this woman to see that you and she both love her son and want what’s best for him and if you can find the generosity in your heart to understand that while she is super important to him she is not a threat to you at all; I believe that will be best for your relationship. I hope you find a friend and ally. Good luck!

It definitely will be a big deal as he won't drop it! This message conflicts with his 'I can't upset her...'

Feel like I'm being super negative, but old habits die hard, and it's a story old as time on mumsnet the crap that is spouted by some men. Its likely he believes what he's promising though, but the reality is always different.

I'd be inclined to ask/facilitate these 'no big deal' changes happening now - why wouldn't he if they're so easy?

A man having a close relationship with his mum is a good thing.

A man letting his mum have a key to his place is fine, perhaps even normal.

A 42 yr old man letting his (presumably at least 20yrs older) mum do his housework and change his bedsheets is not good. Why isn’t he telling her that he’s done his own laundry already and to sit down and let him make her some tea?

A man cancelling a date with you when he didn’t want to because his mum told him to is a massive, massive red flag and a sign that her whims will always come before your needs. Incredibly disrespectful to you.

Sounds like he’s basically married to his mum and you’d just be there for sex :( I can see why he’s never married.

i've told him point-blank that you realise if we actually do end up living together this won't continue and he says oh yes I know.

° he knows and expects you'll take over all mums chores.

@MrsClatterbuck excellent point

Is he fuck a feminist!

I love you but you and your mom remind me of Norman Bates and his mom"? :)

This paragraph could be written about any number of poor partners/husbands on Mumsnet threads throughout the years

Yep! Totally agree