BF's relationship with his Mom- red flag or not?

[Evangeli]

Dating for three years now. Everything lovely, great company, great sex, similar tastes blah blah blah. talking about buying a house and moving in together when time is right. BUT (there's always a but, right?).
BF is an only child. Never married, no kids. He's 42, fully-functioning and capable. Are these red flags?

Mom has a key to his apartment and pops in and out - a couple of times walking in on us although I understand now she texts and that hasn't happened in the recent past.
Mom does a lot of his housework, right down changing his sheets and doing his laundry.
Mom has full knowledge son’s eating habits and sleeping schedule, not to mention arranging his car check-ups, medical and bank appointments. (I know because she'll call while I'm with him, or he'll even mention it himself, not seeing anything odd about this).

i've told him point-blank that you realise if we actually do end up living together this won't continue and he says oh yes I know.

One of our biggest fights happened when he was with his mom, mentioned he was tired, he was seeing me later that night, and she went on at him about cancelling with me since he's tired and needs an early night, to the extent that "just to get her to leave me alone" he texted me and cancelled while he was still with her. I found that very disrespectful and inappropriate. We did end up seeing each other later, and he wasn't tired at all.

I remember reading a novel by an Irishwoman- very fun read (can't remember her name) and she makes fun of the "Irish Catholic Mammy" or the ICM for short, who does her son's laundry etc- that fits BF's mom perfectly (she is of Irish descent and is catholic).

My mom (now dead) was very interfering and overbearing in her own way, but not to this level detail (honestly tho maybe she would be if I'd let her), plus we are four siblings, so very different dynamic.

What do you think?

I've actually told him (after 2 years) he needs to not have long phone conversations with her while I'm there, and he hasn't. Now it's like "Hi mom, yes Evangeli is with me. Just picked her up. Yeah I'll talk to you later. bye". Which is better, I guess? baby steps?

My dd actually loved her bfs dm and did manage to stop her letting herself in. Didn't last long as bf got a dpuppy and guess who came and let it out midday for a wee?
And took it for jabs...
And cleaned the floor after work..
They split up... Guess where bf went to live?

I am surprised I didn't see a landslide yanbu honestly. This is a seriously massive red flag.

I am Irish. The Irish mammy is real. It's not every Irish mother thankfully but they do exist and you have found one here.

Are you happy to be his mistress? His someday live-in mistress? Because he's married to her, not you. His dad is probably distant because he long ago accepted his role as a sideline character.

Do not underestimate what a messy situation this will be if you decide to proceed.

First of all he needs to untangle before you proceed in any way. If you move in with him you will be expected to replace her or at least compete for the position. Imagine what that will be like? Trying to prove yourself as worthy enough to pick up after him, fawn on him, generally adore him for no appreciation as it's just his dues. And you will never do it properly. You will never get the laundry just right or make apple pie with the exact right ratios or whatever it is.

If you are staying with him, you need to stress test his ability to cut the apron strings. And you need to do it cleverly, you can't say anything that will sound even vaguely like a criticism of his mother.

Tell him you have some reservations about committing further. You are a single mother. You are resilient and independent. These are essential traits in anyone you consider as a partner. The fact he 'has his laundry done' or "doesn't manage his personal affairs himself' (don't mention her!) is concerning. See what he says. Does he see where you're coming from? Can he change? Fair enough if he can't, you just felt the need to be honest. Can he show you he can change before you discuss moving in together etc.

But do not move into this mess.

Another option we discuss (acknowledging our differences in lifestyle) is just trying to move in the same building or even street so we could be much closer than we are now, just not in the same space.

I think I'd like us being in the same building. It would be much more in terms of expense.

He's 42, fully-functioning and capable.

But he isn't though is he? His mum is coming in and being maid twice a week at least.

42!

No hope for this one, the habit will be to hard to break and you'll either have mumsy as a third wheel or you'll be stuck keeping things shipshape and Bristol fashion for him instead.

Trial period first?
Keep your own places so you can go back to them if it doesn't work out.

Easy to be a clean freak when someone else does your cleaning!

@Eleganz

He's 42, fully-functioning and capable.

But he isn't though is he? His mum is coming in and being maid twice a week at least.

42!

No hope for this one, the habit will be to hard to break and you'll either have mumsy as a third wheel or you'll be stuck keeping things shipshape and Bristol fashion for him instead.

I think it's more than that, every other day maybe, depending on her own health issues.

She's in her early seventies, to pp who were asking, and I understand she has considerably "slowed down".

I have no doubt that the fact he's remained unmarried and childfree at this age is due to his mother's role in his life. Because otherwise he has a decent job and income, he doesn't look like a troll, and he's generally presentable and sweet.

@NoYOUbekind

Easy to be a clean freak when someone else does your cleaning!

I know right :(

I read a bit about ‘transactional analysis’ at university. Seems like he hasn’t ‘transitioned’ to having an ‘adult to adult’ relationship with his mum. He is still interacting with her as a child. And prioritising doing what she prefers / says over his adult relationship with you. Not attractive.

I would also lose attraction to someone who didn’t do all their own domestic work.

If he’s such a ‘clean freak’ and prides himself on it, why is he not doing the work himself?!

If - and I wouldn’t - you still want to date him, don’t think it’d be sensible to even consider moving in with him until your 15 year old DC has left home. Too many red flags, so would be unfair to your DC.

His issues in sexual relationships are NOT down to ‘his mother’s role in his life’, but his issues and choices - at 42 he is not functioning independently. Yet seems to think quite a lot of himself, eg criticising your domestic standards.

It’s not indicative of a ‘close’ relationship to be enmeshed and dependent, as he is on his mum.

@Taoneusa

I think it’s great that they get on so well and share their lives. After all, who doesn’t want to share their life and feel loved and cared for. we are no longer as heteronormative, or even couple focused, as a society. In lots of cultures close family life is the norm.

Maybe this is a question of jostling for position or a “ how do I fit in here “ discomfort.

You obviously have the same 'healthy' relationship with your son

@Dozer I agree with how he interacts with his mom is more of a child than adult.

I have to say, I wouldn't lose attraction to somebody because of the amount of domestic work he does or doesn't.

I didn't mean to sound as if I was blaming his mom for his staying unmarried, not at all, that is his own choice, 100%. But I do think his relationship with his mom is to a large part behind that as well as probably not having met "The One".

Also, to be clear, he hasn't criticized me for not cleaning (yet?). Just that in discussing this, we both acknowledge I'm of the school of "if it's not moving, then it's probably fine" (I'm exaggerating).

I have to run now, but thanks for all the feedback, I will be considering it all very carefully :)

After three years dating, Evangeli, you just “cordial and polite” with his mom. And dad, presumably.

A pink flag might be that there isn’t a closer / growing connection? Has it stalled? Or is that you prefer to keep her at arms length?

Is your bf like 100% neurotypical? I’m not sure if it’s male that he sometimes needs prompting from you, or if he’s a little what used to be called aspie. If he was an aspie child, his mom could have stepped into a very active role to support him. Idk!

Sounds as though you have a good relationship with him and are happy, which is lovely.

TerriblyNaice

This is completely abnormal for an adult man. I think you know this.

Just know if you do stay with him and marry him then you’re mother in law is going to be overly involved.

I don’t understand why she has a key and comes over unannounced and cleans his apartment, makes appointments.. basically she manages his life for him.

Are you sure he can manage his own life as an adult? Because if not then you’re going to be doing all of this which can be a huge load. Women end up doing a large amount of emotional work in a relationship as it is.. do you want to do everything his mother is doing?

Does he know how to cook and clean? Does he know how to even make his own appointments?

This would all make me drier than the Sahara dessert to know how involved his mother is. But maybe this is just me.

You can have a discussion with him, but I don’t know what would change if both he and his mother feel comfortable with this. I can imagine his mother will paint you as the villain who is “stealing her little boy” when it comes down to cut the umbilical cord.

This was my ex haha his mother has now moved 4 doors away from him and his new wife. Oh how I laughed

Surely by the whole laundry lockdown tantrum his mum had he must be able to see she is trying to keep the apron strings attached and not actually let him be an adult.
Before I considered moving in together, and definitely not into his, I would be wanting to know answers. So what will he take on, what will he expect you to do. Mother, no key, no chores etc etc. I would actually think about having him to move into your for a trail run, as see how both he and she copes with the apron strings cut. May show him how she is being having so much say and interference in his life when she can't pop in while he is with you.

You have two options:

1. accept that she will always be in your relationship and life and that you will always be third place in your household as he habitually defers to her and she babies him.

2. maybe she will back off as the relationship grows serious, in which case you will be expected to take over the mothering. If he's had 40 years of not being responsible for himself, he's not going to start now - he might say otherwise but watch that fall apart when the time comes to put the work in. Expect to clean, organise, and generally run his life and probably have to deal with complaints when you 'fall short' of how his mother did it.

Personally I would not be considering this man serious relationship fodder, if you do go down at avenue you need to do it with full awareness that you aren't getting an independant adult partner.

As it currently stands there will be 3 of you in the apartment (even if she's not there physically). Have you asked him why his previous relationships ended? I bet it was jostling with "ownership" of him with mummy.
He's never progressed to an adult relationship with his mummy and I hope you're prepared to pick up the life admin baton if she ever does back away.
Not being a "functioning" adult in a relationship is a complete passion killer. The very least any adult should be able to do is cook, clean, and do their own washing/admin. Otherwise you're living in the 1950s!

I wouldn't lose attraction to somebody because of the amount of domestic work he does or doesn't.

In the abstract, of course, I understand what you mean. The fact is, though, that someone has to do it. Would you really be happy with that being "anyone but him".

By all means have a relationship with him if he appeals to you. Moving in together, not so much.

Hard rule: never ever move in with a man who is not doing his own cleaning, cooking and laundry, and to a standard you respect. Until you see concrete evidence that he can and will 'adult', keep your distance.

His mum is a slight red herring. He is enabling their distorted relationship. This is very much a 'him' problem, and it will not disappear if she does.

What you have now sounds workable. I would never live with a man like that. I’m Irish I know exactly what you mean about Irish Mammy syndrome.

My partner is a bit like this...but with his Dad! His Dad has to have a say in whatever he does, it is very annoying. His Dad is quite an overbearing character and my partner is quite lazy and will easily let other people do any work/decisions so he doesn't have to so his Dad tends to take over. Just yesterday I came home from work early and my partner was at home with our children, and his Dad was in our kitchen cooking everyone's lunch!
His Dad has to get involved in everything we do. He does mean well and is a kind person but my God, it is so annoying!
My partner thinks I am the weird one for having an issue with it. He is an only child and his Dad has literally got involved in everything he says and does. He doesn't see it as strange at all!