Does the sheer volume of miserable women living their lives in service to men get you down

[BeMoreQueer]

In the many years since I first came on mn the same threads come up time and again

1. trapped in a loveless marriage, is this all there is?
2. I do everything for the kids/ house, he does nothing, im pregnant how can I get him to step up?
3. I gave up work to be a sahm and now I am treated like the nanny/ bang maid but can’t leave because I have no income or safety net

The sheer overwhelming cumulative volume of threads on these general themes make me despair for the women who don’t believe they deserve better, for the men who don’t seem to know how to be a meaningful part of family and for the generations that have grown up seeing this and are likely doomed to repeat it

Aibu?

Yabu = not my experience of mn / life
Yanbu = despair is reasonable response to unreasonable circumstances

Yes but luckily not so much in RL but we are probably fairly privileged.

Yes.
A lot of it is learnt behaviour and needs to change.
My DP is one of the better ones however I do the lions share of the DC stuff.

I have 3 sisters, 2 work full-time they do every domestic job in the house and look after the DC.

Living in a loveless marriage gets me down, but I stay for the financial security and to live in my lovely house.
I will leave one day, when I decide to.

I think this probably works both ways though, I work with a man trapped in a loveless marriage, a wife who refuses to work, kids who are at secondary school. He works full time, pays for everyone, mortgage, bills, food, holidays, cleaner etc. When at home he does the garden, school drop offs in the morning, after school clubs and extra curricular drop off journeys.

I have an amazing husband, great with kids, high earner, does more than his fair share at home, caring, loving and very self. There is an element of luck in that we both found each other, but I also would have not settled for someone who treated me like shit, which many seem to do.

I think a lot of people, male or female, are trapped in relationships with partners who in reality should not be anyone's partner. The general difference is the women end up feeling like domestic slaves and the men end up feeling like financial slaves.

Yes I find it so depressing, but also I take heart from the growing number of woman who seem to realise that they don't need a man to share their home and would never live with one again.

I think the problem is children. It's difficult to have them without involving a man in a meaningful way, I don't mean for conception, I mean for finances and sheer practicality (although there seem to be a lot that are a hindrance). As I've got older I've noticed just how boring most men are. Unless they're talking about themselves, work or their hobby they have very little engagement or interest.

I do worry for my daughters. The thought of them going through all of this makes me sad. The only thing I can think is to make them financially independent - that way they have choice , to have a man, children with a man or not.

I think sometimes as well that it doesn’t always become apparent until you have children. And you become older and wiser.

I always find it so irritating when they describe an absolute asshole doing nothing in the home then they say they have 3 kids ! And are 7 months pregnant!. Why continue getting pregnant for these horrible men!

Yes, it’s on here time and time again, it’s very sad, but what’s worse is when women post that they are about to give up work ans basically it will never happen to them.

@femfemlicious

I always find it so irritating when they describe an absolute asshole doing nothing in the home then they say they have 3 kids ! And are 7 months pregnant!. Why continue getting pregnant for these horrible men!

I accept that some of these women don't might not have a choice about this, but the ones I don't understand are where the OP is TTCing with a useless waste of space or abusive partner. Do they not realise that being stuck with said partner is ten times worse with a baby?

I find some of the threads on here frightening and I've no idea why these women put up with it. It worries me that so many women seem to think that they and their children deserve such treatment 😔 and that such men are OK with treating their nearest and dearest like dirt. It actually makes me so sad for them that they think so little of themselves. How do we correct this going forward? More education for children around healthy relationships and boundaries?

Yes and there is one underlying theme. Many women let their desire for children overshadow the fact that the partner is a waster. It is so clear from so many posts that the woman just wants to have a child, the partner has no strong views or is not particularly keen on it and in some instances has been henpecked into saying he really wants a child too. Then he continues to be the feckless man he always was, but with children in the mix, it gets harder for the woman. This is not a surprise but a shock to the woman. But she proceeds to have more children with the same man.
Another one is where women happily give up their hard won career to raise children full time and then complain that the partner does no childcare or house work. A painful but equitable solution (in many) instances would be to stay full time at work and employ childcare or a cleaner. Women need to take a more hard nosed approach and protect themselves against this. Not always possible but in many circumstances it is.

Mumsnet should be part of standard education for girls at school or certainly at college age. If I'd have had mumsnet back then my life would have been far less abusive for a start. Mumsnet has taught me all that my family didn't in terms of relationships and taught me to say no, that I deserved better, and I was not here to please men or other people.

The posts on here day in day out sadden me so much. I'd have posted similar and at the start of my time on here I did so my hope is that these women end up stronger and take control of their lives from the time of posting. Posters on here can be fantastic and so supportive and they certainly made a difference to my life.

I find it depressing, but possibly because I’ve been there and am now out the other side. I want to say LTB to most threads I read, but I know that if people had said that to me (even when it was really obvious I should have left!) I would have got defensive and come up with excuses to stay. I just hope the OPs eventually find the strength to leave and discover the grass really is greener…

People who have good lives don't come and post on here as that would be considered bragging.

We only see the worst of people's relationships on mumsnet.

In the real world this probably happens to 1 or 2 out of 10 couples so it is fairly common but rarely talked about.

@GoodnightGrandma

Living in a loveless marriage gets me down, but I stay for the financial security and to live in my lovely house. I will leave one day, when I decide to.

If that's what you plan to do, what needs to happen first?

@SortingItOut

People who have good lives don't come and post on here as that would be considered bragging.

We only see the worst of people's relationships on mumsnet.

In the real world this probably happens to 1 or 2 out of 10 couples so it is fairly common but rarely talked about.

Sounds like a statistic to take seriously.

I've thought for some time that many of the cultural advances of the women's movements of the 20th century were gradually lost in the misogyny of the 90s and 00s media and internet culture, so gradually we didn't really notice at the time, and we're now living in a sort of 50s "ideal housewife" cultural reality.

In some ways, culturally, I feel we've fallen behind even the war and post war period in terms of attitudes to women as people, workers and citizens, generally. Present day legal protections of women are as worthless as the paper they're printed on, totally unforced by law, until a women lies dead in her own home at the hands of her own husband. Even then, he merely needs to claim he raped her before she died "sex game gone wrong" and he's let off with a slap on the hand with a wet bus ticket.

Sure women used to need a man to get a bank account, and rape was legal in marriage, but now a man gets a free murder if he rapes her first - and a heavy discount on the rape too. This is all cultural and it seeps into the pores of everything, including the attitudes of the "good ones" in the home.

As they say, history doesn't repeat, but it rhymes.

@sst1234

Yes and there is one underlying theme. Many women let their desire for children overshadow the fact that the partner is a waster. It is so clear from so many posts that the woman just wants to have a child, the partner has no strong views or is not particularly keen on it and in some instances has been henpecked into saying he really wants a child too. Then he continues to be the feckless man he always was, but with children in the mix, it gets harder for the woman. This is not a surprise but a shock to the woman. But she proceeds to have more children with the same man. Another one is where women happily give up their hard won career to raise children full time and then complain that the partner does no childcare or house work. A painful but equitable solution (in many) instances would be to stay full time at work and employ childcare or a cleaner. Women need to take a more hard nosed approach and protect themselves against this. Not always possible but in many circumstances it is.

I agree with every word you wrote here @sst1234.

I agree @FlatteredFool. I find it sad that posters who are in abusive relationships post on here only to find out that they had no idea that they were in a dysfunctional relationship and don't know how to recognise this.

On the other hand I have found it uplifting when some of these posters have found the strength to do something about it as a result of the support they have had on here.

I find mumsnet very depressing for this reason. It isn’t reflective of my real life experience, but you really see on this site just how many women are putting up with unimaginably shitty treatment.

Sorting out- I don’t know what ‘real world’ you’re living in but it very much fits with my reality.

Of all the families I know only 1 set of parents have stayed together AND seem genuinely happy (ie are nice to each other)

Mn helped me LTB just as things went from miserable to dangerous and gave me the clarity to see that a man who wanted me pregnant again before my section had even healed but didn’t actually do a single thing for his newborn or unwell partner was not someone to allow unprotected sex with.

I made it out alive, barely, in part thanks to the support I received here helping me see through the FOG

@BeMoreQueer My reality was also very similar, I left my emotionally abusive husband 3 years ago but of all the couples I know the majority are happily married and get along.
There was only myself and another lady who are now divorced, the other 6 couples are doing great and this is a mix of ages from early 40's up to mid 50's.

I agree that children often tips the balance. Things that could perhaps be unseen or ignored become huge.

I think being. SAHM is encouraged on here
It’s assumed husbands earn loads and that the best thing is to stay home whilst your kids are primary aged at least
But the husbands should also do housework, child related things, cook and give the wife enough money to pursue her own hobbies etc
It’s encouraged to see SAHM as a valid job choice. I’m sure this offends loads of people and I’m really not trying to be unkind but i think for certain women is does mean a life of being reliant on their husband and being trapped . Yes you might enjoy the choice end enjoy the domestic work and time with the kids but at the end of the day, you have no money of your own unless you have some sort of massive inheritance and thus no independence

The only exceptions to this are people like I know IRL who’ve waited to have kids until 40-45+ And saved for one to have a set role as SAHP, but that has its downsides as well

I'm more concerned about how financially vulnerable many women seem to be, I've seen a couple of break ups of long term relationships and the woman was left struggling to afford private rents while the man had his house all paid for, partly by the woman.

What’s also depressing is the number of women who explain in detail how some awful useless man treats them and then ask, “how can I explain this to DP? How can I make him get it?”. Like all the bad treatment is a failure of their own ability to ask nicely enough for him not to be a shit to you.

But it’s hard to accept someone you love fundamentally doesn’t care about you, and doesn’t see you as someone who matters as much as they do. Easier to kid yourself he’s still the lovely bloke you believe he is deep down and if you only found the right magic combination of words, he’d morph into a great partner.