Gordon Brown for PM?

[Wilkolampshade]

I don't know, just watching the Blair/Brown documentary, does anyone think we could/should bring back Gordon Brown as leader of the Labour Party for a shot at P. M?
YABU... Absolutely not, what ARE you thinking?!?!
YANBU.... Why not, how much worse could it get?

@rrhuth

I don't think UK has the same circs as Australia, but yes, in twenty years we could have established a fully revised system with points.

Now just the small matter of bridging the critical labour shortages in the meantime...

I guess we can get used to drowning injured animals instead of humane treatment...
And nursing shortages, care home shortages, GP shortages, driver shortages - labour is not a tap you can turn on and off, people have lives.

It is a tap with a system. It’s how you manage the flow

I’m used to emigration in our family and policy in 70s drive it then too (my parents)

Socialism is a turn off

The uk perception of socialism is quickly headed the way of the USA where anything remotely social democratic is akin to 1970s Russia invading, either way I dont have a horse in any of the races but watching the party be in thrall to the 90s policies while shedding members against a populist government who are also shedding our rights is something I consider fun, I embrace the chaos

It is a tap with a system. It’s how you manage the flow

Oh, funny, I thought people would have to apply? You can't 'turn it on' if people don't want to come. The UK has to attract people.

Welcome to Britain! Pay excessive rents in a country with second-rate healthcare whilst your neighbours tell you their 'legitimate concerns' and ask you to fuck off home!

UK has quite a bit of work to do to make the transition to a points-based system.

We currently have widespread labour shortages, and thus our economy is shrinking.

@rrhuth

It is a tap with a system. It’s how you manage the flow

Oh, funny, I thought people would have to apply? You can't 'turn it on' if people don't want to come. The UK has to attract people.

Welcome to Britain! Pay excessive rents in a country with second-rate healthcare whilst your neighbours tell you their 'legitimate concerns' and ask you to fuck off home!

UK has quite a bit of work to do to make the transition to a points-based system.

We currently have widespread labour shortages, and thus our economy is shrinking.

There will be some who think U.K. is a terrible place as you do. Many on mn it seems.

But having lived in US Aus and U.K. (incidentally pretty lucky as they seem to be the places people try the hardest to get to) it is a very attractive country.

Would you move somewhere else, you sound a bit down about UK. You could use their points system to get in.

There will be some who think U.K. is a terrible place as you do

I'll talk about the UK anyway I want, it's my country and I love it.

It is a legitimate point that the transition to a points-based system will take time.

Up to you biscuit

I’m happy here and I know people still find it an attractive country to come to

If going back in time is a thing, I think Labour needs to go and get the Milliband brother that should've got the vote in 2010.

@MarshaBradyo

Up to you biscuit

I’m happy here and I know people still find it an attractive country to come to

It isn't just about you and the few people you know. I'm not saying no one wants to come.

I'm saying we have labour shortages we can't fill. Not enough people want to come in the right roles, and we just made immigration from the EU much less easy, meaning they won't come in the same numbers. Therefore we currently have insufficient vets even though the tap is and always has been fully open.

Politics is not just about belief, it is also about reality.

Yet your narrative is so depressing and down. Can the left say anything good about the U.K. I wonder? A real vote killer that inability. I’ll leave you to it.

concerns where there is a significant shift in demographics which favours cultural norms where the freedom and the role of women, attitudes to LGBTQ+ people and general human rights are not respected in the way we've developed

this clearly = not liking foreigners

No it isn't, and just repeating the mantra "you're a xenophobe" doesn't make me one. Being concerned about demographic shifts is legitimate. I see you have no answer to this except to throw casual accusations of "ism".

immigrants are low users of services particularly healthcare, please explain how a nurse from overseas coming to fill a vacant post makes the NHS more overloaded
Please explain where I made that claim - clue I didn't.

You seem to be stuck in a binary thought pattern and you cannot get out of it - anyone who questions any aspect of immigration is just a xenophobe - that's not correct however much you may like the idea as it allows you to write people off casually.

@MarshaBradyo

Yet your narrative is so depressing and down. Can the left say anything good about the U.K. I wonder? A real vote killer that inability. I’ll leave you to it.

Oh, I see, we just have to believe, as real politics is too complicated to think about?

I'm not left btw. Presumably I am on Australia's spectrum!

The Brexit voters may not have liked freedom of movement, but the way the implemented it was a national choice.

This again. This is always trotted out about the way we implemented FOM - but as usual it conveniently ignores the reality of the UK -
We typically and habitually are not used to being required to register locally in the way that much of the EU does - we don't have the infrastructure for that. Our benefits systems are almost uniquely not generally related to contributions. Changing those things and the attendant enforcement would have cost many billions and so were never going to be possible.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

concerns where there is a significant shift in demographics which favours cultural norms where the freedom and the role of women, attitudes to LGBTQ+ people and general human rights are not respected in the way we've developed

this clearly = not liking foreigners

No it isn't, and just repeating the mantra "you're a xenophobe" doesn't make me one. Being concerned about demographic shifts is legitimate. I see you have no answer to this except to throw casual accusations of "ism".

I'm all ears about these demographic shifts

Our benefits systems are almost uniquely not generally related to contributions all benefits entitlement is national policy choice

EU migrants were not entitled to benefits in the way you are claiming.

have to believe

Leave? I’m yet to hear a single positive statement about U.K., it gets wearing after a while, what do you mean Aus spectrum?

No Labour voters in this house but Gordon Brown was what you need as a PM- hard working, decent, intelligent, honest. He mitigated the worst of the economic collapse in 2008.

Compared to the two self serving schisters Cameron and Osborne that rocked up after him he was a titan of politics. The current government is hardly what you call a government.

@DeclineandFall

No Labour voters in this house but Gordon Brown was what you need as a PM- hard working, decent, intelligent, honest. He mitigated the worst of the economic collapse in 2008. Compared to the two self serving schisters Cameron and Osborne that rocked up after him he was a titan of politics. The current government is hardly what you call a government.

Brown had good ideas but his implementation was shockingly bad. He had no foresight at all about the entirely foreseeable "unforeseen" consequences. Typical brainy person, he had the intelligence but failed miserably on the practical side.

So in your version 3, Gordon still believes she was a "bigoted woman", but pretends otherwise and issues a fake apology, is that right?

@daimbarsatemydogsbone yes, just like anyone else in a high profile position would do when faced with the pressure from PR. He wasn’t the first, and won’t be the last. If he had refused, the story would have gone on and on for weeks. I don’t blame him one bit for that, the media made way, way more of it than it was. The woman was a bigot, she wasn’t looking for a serious debate, she just didn’t like them immigrants.

If going back in time is a thing, I think Labour needs to go and get the Milliband brother that should've got the vote in 2010.

I was totally against it at the time, but with hindsight, it would have been a good move.

Why do people say no labour (or Tory) voters in this house ? Do people never change their opinions ? Are their opinions set in stone ? Quite worrying really and means that even absolutely governments are always safe because people are just lazy thinkers.

I have wondered about where’d we’d be if other Milliband was chosen

Maybe no Brexit.. not sure

Wasn't Brown the mastermind behind working tax credit. I always wondered why not just increase minimum wage? Problem with benefits/credits is they can be removed or reduced. Very hard to lower a minimum wage.

@jewel1968

Wasn't Brown the mastermind behind working tax credit. I always wondered why not just increase minimum wage? Problem with benefits/credits is they can be removed or reduced. Very hard to lower a minimum wage.

It was a good idea in theory, but the detail and implementation was appallingly bad.

@BoredZelda

So in your version 3, Gordon still believes she was a "bigoted woman", but pretends otherwise and issues a fake apology, is that right?

@daimbarsatemydogsbone yes, just like anyone else in a high profile position would do when faced with the pressure from PR. He wasn’t the first, and won’t be the last. If he had refused, the story would have gone on and on for weeks. I don’t blame him one bit for that, the media made way, way more of it than it was. The woman was a bigot, she wasn’t looking for a serious debate, she just didn’t like them immigrants.

I am not sure how you can contend she was a bigot from that limited exchange; but both you and Gordon seem to have reached that conclusion on very limited evidence. That you fully accept and defend Gordon (in your judgement) telling a bare-faced lie and issuing a fake apology doesn't make you someone occupying the moral high ground in any way - in fact that's part of the problem when no-one has any principles they will stand by - that's not morality it's just lies.