Gordon Brown for PM?

[Wilkolampshade]

I don't know, just watching the Blair/Brown documentary, does anyone think we could/should bring back Gordon Brown as leader of the Labour Party for a shot at P. M?
YABU... Absolutely not, what ARE you thinking?!?!
YANBU.... Why not, how much worse could it get?

He did incalculable damage to pensions.

A really dreadful chancellor and a PM who was kicked out by the electorate as soon as they got the chance.

Time for a woman at the top for Labour..Yvette Cooper..forensic and serious.

Just watched the final part and cried like a baby at the Browns leaving Downing Street and Ed Balls saying “they’d managed to protect their sons all this time, but they wanted that one memory, that one photo, so they’d know that their Dad had been the Prime Minister.”

It’s ultimately such a sad thing for politicians that when they reach the heights of the top job- a job they’ve often aspired to all of their lives and which they have very real and good convictions for wanting- the only way is down. I always think of that thing David Cameron said at his last PMQs: “I was the future once” (and I’m no Cameron fan, not at all, but he summed it up perfectly).

Labour needs Andy Burnham in as leader before the next election if they want to be in government again. Keir Starmer isn't the right man for the job.

I was a Civil Servant working for HMRC when Tony Blair came to power, there hadn't been any recruitment since I got my job in 1984, staff weren't replaced if they left or retired, the workload was just spread around. Within 6 months of Tony Blair becoming PM recruiting & promotions started again, our office staffing increased by 25% by the time he had been PM for 5 years. We needed more staff to deal with administering the Working & Child Tax Credits, we were seeing on average 500 people a day who came to claim direct payments, each claim took about an hour not including the time for inputting & verifying the claims. We had queues outside our building at 7.30am for opening at 8.00am & we stayed open to 6.00pm. We were seeing more customers than the DWP & Jobcentres at the height of the introduction of the new Tax Credits.

@Nat6999

Labour needs Andy Burnham in as leader before the next election if they want to be in government again. Keir Starmer isn't the right man for the job.

Oh I thought Keir Starmer was the right man for the job, apparently there was going to be a 20point bounce in the polls and all other manner of good things were going to happen, now its going to be Burnham thats the saviour of Labour and will likely be as successful as Starmer

@Nat6999

Labour needs Andy Burnham in as leader before the next election if they want to be in government again. Keir Starmer isn't the right man for the job.

Actually what Labour needs to do is quit the infighting and get behind Starmer. He may not be up to the job but we can't know.... because not only has the media never given him a chance, neither has his own party. Andy Burnham needs to quit stirring and accept that he wasn't chosen when he put himself up. And if, after being given a fair go, Starmer does turn out to be not good enough, Burnham needs to find a better more constructive campaign tactic than the stoking regional division one.

He was a good Chancellor but a mediocre PM.

Fair enough to Burnham, he isn't the only one guilty of the stoking division thing. The current government would do well to leave that behind too.

Levelling up needs to be on a national and individual basis.

A very good start would be buying and building lots of social housing.

Add in improved public services and infrastructure including public transport, and decent training and employment opportunities across the country, and (unlike in 1997) things can only get better.

@rrhuth having concerns about mass immigration is absolutely a legitimate view.

@Nat6999

Labour needs Andy Burnham in as leader before the next election if they want to be in government again. Keir Starmer isn't the right man for the job.

Sadly I dont think Andy has a chance in hell of the electorate electing hin as PM.

[quote Snoozer11]@rrhuth having concerns about mass immigration is absolutely a legitimate view.[/quote]
Outline the concerns leaving aside all underinvestment issues and I can give you a hearing.

But usually what people are moaning about is either:

a) labour policies in the UK
b) underinvestment in public services/housing
c) not liking foreigners

None of those are actually about immigrants themselves, or immigration.

What is the problem, in principle, with immigration?

@onanotherday

Time for a woman at the top for Labour..Yvette Cooper..forensic and serious.

I agree about her but wonder if the expenses thing makes it impossible.

What is the problem, in principle, with immigration?
You've seen it laid out above in detail but chosen to ignore that.
It's also a bit daft to talk about such a practical issue "in principle".
In principle I am in favour of the UK offering ANY refugee or economic migrant a home - out of pure humanity since their lives are so much worse.

But we can't do that, and it's not just due to having crap governments.

You always have to deal with the practical, and sadly that includes the fact that (for whatever reason) governments and local authorities aren't prepared to make proper infratstructure investments. You can't realistically expect people to say "OK, fine, everything is overloaded/oversubscribed but I am happy for large numbers of people still to be coming here as I know it's only overloaded because of useless politicians"

As for "not liking foreign people" that's also a bit silly. As also outlined upthread, it is legitimate to have concerns where there is a significant shift in demographics which favours cultural norms where the freedom and the role of women, attitudes to LGBTQ+ people and general human rights are not respected in the way we've developed.

I believe Labour should celebrate the good things from the Blair Brown years. Starmer is leader, he was elected as the best of the leadership candidates. He’s a politician with a good career pre-politics, he has integrity and the values this country needs
No point suggesting bringing Brown back. Starmer a much better future pm.
Andy Burnham stood twice but sadly Corbyn won. Leave Andy with us in manchester

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

What is the problem, in principle, with immigration? You've seen it laid out above in detail but chosen to ignore that. It's also a bit daft to talk about such a practical issue "in principle". In principle I am in favour of the UK offering ANY refugee or economic migrant a home - out of pure humanity since their lives are so much worse.

But we can't do that, and it's not just due to having crap governments.

You always have to deal with the practical, and sadly that includes the fact that (for whatever reason) governments and local authorities aren't prepared to make proper infratstructure investments. You can't realistically expect people to say "OK, fine, everything is overloaded/oversubscribed but I am happy for large numbers of people still to be coming here as I know it's only overloaded because of useless politicians"

As for "not liking foreign people" that's also a bit silly. As also outlined upthread, it is legitimate to have concerns where there is a significant shift in demographics which favours cultural norms where the freedom and the role of women, attitudes to LGBTQ+ people and general human rights are not respected in the way we've developed.

concerns where there is a significant shift in demographics which favours cultural norms where the freedom and the role of women, attitudes to LGBTQ+ people and general human rights are not respected in the way we've developed this clearly = not liking foreigners

You can't realistically expect people to say "OK, fine, everything is overloaded/oversubscribed but I am happy for large numbers of people still to be coming here as I know it's only overloaded because of useless politicians immigrants are low users of services particularly healthcare, please explain how a nurse from overseas coming to fill a vacant post makes the NHS more overloaded

@lotsofdogshere

I believe Labour should celebrate the good things from the Blair Brown years. Starmer is leader, he was elected as the best of the leadership candidates. He’s a politician with a good career pre-politics, he has integrity and the values this country needs No point suggesting bringing Brown back. Starmer a much better future pm. Andy Burnham stood twice but sadly Corbyn won. Leave Andy with us in manchester

Starmer portrayed himself as the unity candidate between the right and left of the PLP, as soon as he was elected hes turned on the left within the party, the Labour party are hemorrhaging members and money because of it

I voted remain but I am used to the points system in Aus. You do have people immigrating still of course. But they do it in a different way (to our pre Brexit anyway)

@JustAnotherPoster00 unfortunately the labour party needs to choose between those pro-Corbyn members and votes. For the good of the country I hope Starmer sorts out the party, then maybe hands it over.

Australia's immigration points approach is fine for them, but their treatment of refugees is a grotesque system, the off-shoring of abuse and death.

The Brexit voters may not have liked freedom of movement, but the way the implemented it was a national choice.

Now we've made another choice, which is labour shortages and a shrinking economy.

Unfortunately the UK is not as appealing to applicants as Australia, as evidenced by the fact that the UK is struggling to recruit to well-paid roles now.

@Nat6999

Labour needs Andy Burnham in as leader before the next election if they want to be in government again. Keir Starmer isn't the right man for the job.

He comes across as an all fur coat, no knickers type. He was in the cabinet before and is trying to re invent himself as the man of the people. Totally fake and disingenuous.

@rrhuth

Australia's immigration points approach is fine for them, but their treatment of refugees is a grotesque system, the off-shoring of abuse and death.

The Brexit voters may not have liked freedom of movement, but the way the implemented it was a national choice.

Now we've made another choice, which is labour shortages and a shrinking economy.

Unfortunately the UK is not as appealing to applicants as Australia, as evidenced by the fact that the UK is struggling to recruit to well-paid roles now.

I didn’t vote for it but now we have it we should use point system to our advantage as Aus does

@JustAnotherPoster00 the irony. Socialism is a turn off. Vast majority of the electorate don't give two hoots about ideological purity. Tories have pretty much thrown their rule book away and want to win elections no matter what. They are happy to adopt more left leaning policies, pretty much parked their tanks on labour's lawn. Agreed that much of the levelling up agenda is yet to be seen but it appeals to red wallers. Labour like it or not need to do the same, move away from right wing v left, socialist v capitalism, start behaving like a sensible unified moderate party.

I don't think UK has the same circs as Australia, but yes, in twenty years we could have established a fully revised system with points.

Now just the small matter of bridging the critical labour shortages in the meantime...

I guess we can get used to drowning injured animals instead of humane treatment...
And nursing shortages, care home shortages, GP shortages, driver shortages - labour is not a tap you can turn on and off, people have lives.