Mother or Birthing Parent

[thaigreen]

Which term do you prefer?

YABU Birthing Parent
YANBU Mother

Mother every time. Anyone who wishes to be known as a birthing parent should feel able to ask to be known as such and their wishes fully respected. But I am a mother and proud to be one.

@peachgreen

It's not confusing or inaccurate. Quite the opposite. It makes it clear that it is referring to the person giving birth.

Whether it's offensive is subjective.

It is confusing. Everyone knows what pregnant woman means. It is is normal usage. Introducing non-intuitive language is an easy way to make things inaccessible for the most vulnerable among us.

Birthing parent is also confusing because it sounds like birthing partner, and it only really makes sense for someone in active labour. Are you a birthing parent during pregnancy? After you've given birth?

It is inaccurate, as people have said, because it doesn't encompass situations where the person in labour will not be the parent e.g. surrogacy and adoption.

Many, many people on this thread have said that they find it offensive, and according to the poll almost nobody prefers it.

It is inaccurate, as people have said, because it doesn't encompass situations where the person in labour will not be the parent e.g. surrogacy and adoption.

This is a fair point. But mother doesn't work either, in that case. So let's go for "person giving birth". That works, hm? Again, this is specifically for legislation covering people who are giving birth. Not mothers (birth, adoptive surrogate or otherwise) but people who are going through the act of giving birth, regardless of how they define themselves.

Many, many people on this thread have said that they find it offensive, and according to the poll almost nobody prefers it.

Forgive me if I don't find a thread on Mumsnet to be a representative sample when it comes to issues involving transgender people...!

Presumably the same literature talks about the labour support role and post-natal visiting hours for the ejaculating parent? And the medical checks that the birthed person will undergo ?

You're absolutely right peachgreen. Lets just call all people meatsacks and meatsack within a meatsack. I think that safely includes everyone.

It's not literature, it's legislation. And yes, I imagine it does talk about the "non-birthing parent" where necessary.

@peachgreen

It is inaccurate, as people have said, because it doesn't encompass situations where the person in labour will not be the parent e.g. surrogacy and adoption.

This is a fair point. But mother doesn't work either, in that case. So let's go for "person giving birth". That works, hm? Again, this is specifically for legislation covering people who are giving birth. Not mothers (birth, adoptive surrogate or otherwise) but people who are going through the act of giving birth, regardless of how they define themselves.

Many, many people on this thread have said that they find it offensive, and according to the poll almost nobody prefers it.

Forgive me if I don't find a thread on Mumsnet to be a representative sample when it comes to issues involving transgender people...!

Mother does work in those situations though, you can be a surrogate mother, a birth mother or an adoptive mother. You can be a labouring mother too.

What would you consider a representative sample? I think if you took a clipboard to your local high street you would have a very similar response!

Forgive me if I don't find a thread on Mumsnet to be a representative sample when it comes to issues involving transgender people...!
This is a womans issue. Why wouldn't the biggest parenting forum in the UK be representative of what mothers want to be called?
YANBU , OP. It's mother all the way.

@peachgreen

It is inaccurate, as people have said, because it doesn't encompass situations where the person in labour will not be the parent e.g. surrogacy and adoption.

This is a fair point. But mother doesn't work either, in that case. So let's go for "person giving birth". That works, hm? Again, this is specifically for legislation covering people who are giving birth. Not mothers (birth, adoptive surrogate or otherwise) but people who are going through the act of giving birth, regardless of how they define themselves.

Many, many people on this thread have said that they find it offensive, and according to the poll almost nobody prefers it.

Forgive me if I don't find a thread on Mumsnet to be a representative sample when it comes to issues involving transgender people...!

Perhaps it's not representative of transgender people.

Only of women
And mothers.

But I know we're not important.

Mother does work in those situations though, you can be a surrogate mother, a birth mother or an adoptive mother. You can be a labouring mother too.

But this isn't legislation talking about surrogate mothers or adoptive mothers. It's only talking about the person giving birth (or who has given birth). So mother isn't always accurate. Whereas "person giving birth" always is.

What would you consider a representative sample? I think if you took a clipboard to your local high street you would have a very similar response!

Potentially, but at this point we don't really have a way of knowing that. Whereas I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Mumsnet, a forum well-known for having a large and outspoken gender critical population, is likely to skew heavily towards one side of this debate.

I’m struggling to think of any other process where the identity and needs of the hospital patient are apparently so irrelevant . Using the term ‘birthing parent’ , rather than ‘woman giving birth’ or ‘mother’ , gives the impression that only the birth is important, whereas in fact the mother’s health is just as important as the baby’s. Women are real people, not just delivery vessels.

@peachgreen

Mother does work in those situations though, you can be a surrogate mother, a birth mother or an adoptive mother. You can be a labouring mother too.

But this isn't legislation talking about surrogate mothers or adoptive mothers. It's only talking about the person giving birth (or who has given birth). So mother isn't always accurate. Whereas "person giving birth" always is.

What would you consider a representative sample? I think if you took a clipboard to your local high street you would have a very similar response!

Potentially, but at this point we don't really have a way of knowing that. Whereas I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Mumsnet, a forum well-known for having a large and outspoken gender critical population, is likely to skew heavily towards one side of this debate.

But "person giving birth" only works for someone who is currently in the process of giving birth. It doesn't work for pregnant women or postnatal women, so it isn't fit for purpose.

If you don't think Mumsnet is the correct place to discern what mothers want to be called try looking at Facebook at the comments below news articles about this topic. Or actually go out to your local high street and ask people.

So mother isn't always accurate. Whereas "person giving birth" always is

In what situation is a 'person giving birth' not a mother of some description?

@peachgreen

It is inaccurate, as people have said, because it doesn't encompass situations where the person in labour will not be the parent e.g. surrogacy and adoption.

This is a fair point. But mother doesn't work either, in that case. So let's go for "person giving birth". That works, hm? Again, this is specifically for legislation covering people who are giving birth. Not mothers (birth, adoptive surrogate or otherwise) but people who are going through the act of giving birth, regardless of how they define themselves.

Many, many people on this thread have said that they find it offensive, and according to the poll almost nobody prefers it.

Forgive me if I don't find a thread on Mumsnet to be a representative sample when it comes to issues involving transgender people...!

Again @peachgreen with the made-up legislation… Birthing parent is not an established legal term. It is also not an established term used in common parlance. There are several terms which have the benefit of being both used in legislation and understood by ordinary people. These include mother, pregnant woman or expectant mother, post-partum or new mother, labouring mother or woman. As a lovely bonus, none of these is dehumanising or demeaning.

@peachgreen

It is inaccurate, as people have said, because it doesn't encompass situations where the person in labour will not be the parent e.g. surrogacy and adoption.

This is a fair point. But mother doesn't work either, in that case. So let's go for "person giving birth". That works, hm? Again, this is specifically for legislation covering people who are giving birth. Not mothers (birth, adoptive surrogate or otherwise) but people who are going through the act of giving birth, regardless of how they define themselves.

Many, many people on this thread have said that they find it offensive, and according to the poll almost nobody prefers it.

Forgive me if I don't find a thread on Mumsnet to be a representative sample when it comes to issues involving transgender people...!

@peachgreen interesting you have changed your mind and are now saying this is about issues involving transgender people. (I don’t agree) Yesterday you said To me this discussion isn't even about transgender people. It is about the accuracy of language in legally or legislatively binding, documents.

And I agreed with you. Because it’s about legislation - which uses the terms woman and mother, not meatsack, walking uterus or birthing person. Are you trying to move the goal posts because your argument is collapsing?

I've always found myself quite understanding of people's rights to be termed exactly as they wish however, I do find myself quite troubled by terms used within maternity services, and other medical settings for women, being messed around with.

I am a woman with a womb, and I plan to give birth through my vagina (fingers crossed I don't need a C section!!) I do not want to be called by any other term than mother whilst I am under maternity services.

I also really do not want to hear the term chest feeding.

I'm not trying to exclude anyone, or make anyone feel uncomfortable.

I can't word it as well as I'd like, but for fucksake can't we just keep some of our characteristics as women without them being made a mockery of?

It is deeply offensive to me to be referred to as anything but a mother. The term birthing parent reduces my life for the last 20 years down to the act of labour only. Quite like the term commonly used for absent lousy fathers as sperm donors.

Raising kids is so much more than that.

My nouns are Woman and Mother

Please respect my #necessarynouns

@peachgreen

Forgive me if I don't find a thread on Mumsnet to be a representative sample when it comes to issues involving transgender people

Pray tell what representative sample of women did the Scottish government, or stonewall consult before pushing forward these ideals? Cos I wasn’t consulted

I find it surprising that the misogynistic and utterly offensive 'birthing parent' scores as highly as it does in your poll, OP. Still, it's heartening to see the majority of women have retained their self respect.

[quote blubberyboo]@peachgreen

Forgive me if I don't find a thread on Mumsnet to be a representative sample when it comes to issues involving transgender people

Pray tell what representative sample of women did the Scottish government, or stonewall consult before pushing forward these ideals? Cos I wasn’t consulted[/quote]

Indeed. Nothing about us without us; isn't that how it goes?

A thread on Mumsnet is probably a pretty representative sample of parents in general, female ones in particular.

Happy to use the whole term "mother or birthing parent", but mother should always remain the prominent part.

I get why it is more inclusive to have a term that captures all situations, but, that could be an addition rather than a replacement. I work with families and mostly it’s parents but families come in all shapes and sizes. Aunts, foster carers, grandparents etc sometimes are in a parent role but they wouldn’t perhaps call themselves the child’s parent. So we refer to ‘parent/carer’ in our literature. Why can’t it just be mother/birthing parent? It hopefully captures everyone then. As long as in direct work I check the terms the family want to use and use them, I think that’s fine.

Forgive me if I don't find a thread on Mumsnet to be a representative sample when it comes to issues involving transgender people...!

I thought this was a thread concerning women and their right to be consulted on the language used to describe themselves and their right not to be described as a series of body parts.