to hate having to decide what the bin eats every day

[3kidsinsane]

I have 3 kids and it drives me nuts having to come up with things to eat that suit everyone for dinner every night. Guaranteed somebody doesn't like it. I feel that the bin is the best fed in our house. DD2 has texture, colour and shape issues with food (if they are "wrong" then it's in the bin) If I get it wrong once then that's the food off the safe list because she doesn't trust it anymore. The other 2 aren't too bad but have phases. I can't remember the last time we had something like a roast dinner where everyone was happy

@Joystir59

How can a human being have such issues with food to the point of starving? Surely if they were just presented with simple foods placed on the table to choose from at each meal time they'd choose something and eat it rather than starve to death? I mean, how do you get into them deciding lasagna has to be a perfect square?

Some kids may be fussy eaters due to being over-indulged... I agree

But look into ARFID. A family member has this. It's an eating disorder, often associated with ASD. Child in question used to eat absolutely anything and has progressively eaten a more and more restricted diet. It was only at the point at which he was hospitalised that anyone took the problem seriously. Child is now receiving specialist care, which will last for years, and is making tiny amounts of progress, each step of which is a massive victory.

Just put yourself in the shoes of a mother whose child does starve itself to the point of hospitalisation for a minute. The stress levels are unimaginable!

It's not because you haven't experienced it that it doesn't exist.

[quote toomuchlaundry]@Winniemarysarah what happens with children with autism etc in that community, and I am not just talking about food issues?[/quote]
Everyone eats the same in most countries, so those kids could refuse some foods on offer, but how could they ask for chicken nuggets if they never had one. So even if their diet is limited it would still be made of parts of a normal healthy diet that everyone eats.

11 yo can start sorting her own food out then.. she is old enough. And for the other two: they are only fussy because you allow it and enable their behaviour
Cook 1 meal and they can choose to eat it or go to bed hungry.

I honestly don't know what the answer is. But I will say that it's very easy to say 'just cook 1 meal and it's up to them whether they eat it or not' (which I do, btw, mostly agree with). In reality, it's really depressing to put effort into cooking perfectly lovely meals every day for the vast majority of them to be picked at, grimaced over, moaned about and, ultimately, chucked in the bin. It's soul destroying!

For the posters who don't accept children can have sensory issues with food, how do you view children who have other sensory issues? Do you think they should just put up and shut up? Do you believe in ASD, ADHD?

You could try the old fashioned technique of 'that's your dinner, and that's it'. If they don't eat it then they go to bed hungry

Agree 100%

So called fussy eaters were not tolerated when I was a kid. Eat whats put down or go hungry. We still grew up.

I have a Dss with a moderate/severe autism diagnosis. He doesn't like 'slimy' food. Fair enough. So oysters , smoked salmon and fried eggs are off the menu.
Everything else is not.

Supper is served. Food is eaten. Strangely enough there has never been an issue and always a willingness to try. I put it down to having 5 other siblings . Eat or they will eat yours !! Survival of the fittest .

Compare to the wrapped in cotton wool child of our sisters nest friend. He would have a paddy if served anything but chicken nuggets and potato smiley faces. He is still only eating this aged 24. Has lost most of his teeth.

Sometimes you just need to put your foot down.

[quote Soubriquet]@Winniemarysarah

Do you believe depression doesn’t exist in the western world? Cos you know people have it so much harder elsewhere.

No?

Eating disorders such as ARFID is a medical problem not just pickiness[/quote]
I know what your trying to say, but it's the other way round. Depression is not as common outside of the West because people basically don't have the time for it. Happiness isn't seen as a god given right, just something to enjoy when it happens upon you and people take their meaning from family, faith, duty, service.

I'm not making a judgement on the Medical issue btw, I've just been thinking about the depression thing lately so thought I'd reply.

Perhaps you should get a dog, at least it would show gratitude with the leftovers!

Ps that’s a lighthearted comment and is not to be taken too seriously. I realise dogs should not be over fed and need a sensible diet etc etc. I once had a dog of my own. (Who loved her food and ate everything on her plate!)

I have ARFID op, and it sounds very familiar to me although everyone can express it very differently. I don’t have ASD as far as I’m aware or any other diagnosis and I was diagnosed at 16 (29 now) and at the time I was basically told because it’s not one of the ‘dangerous’ eating disorders and I had no weight or apparent health issues I wouldn’t get any help with it.
My parents tried everything, the hardcore approach (I would 100% go hungry before eating a not ok food and for a very long time), the gentle approach, bribery, letting me make the food myself or being involved etc.
I lived almost exclusively on plain pasta and rice as my safe foods. I would eat other food such as sandwiches or fruit but it had to be 100% safe, made in a certain way and if I saw or suspected any ‘contamination’ etc I wouldn’t eat it. The trust thing is so so important, I went to my granny’s for Sunday lunch and discovered she blended veggies into the gravy (the only sauce I would eat) and I refused to eat anything at all in her house for about 10 years. My mum essentially had no choice but to give me the acceptable food so I didn’t end up in hospital, she is a chef so it’s not through lack of exposure and the food I imagine was always good.
The constant saying as a child was ‘she will grow out of it’ etc. To a certain extent I’ve improved, I definitely eat more variety now but it’s 100% on my terms, I cannot be pressured, and there is an extensive research process before I make something at home, then another process in getting it either premade or in a restaurant, I have to ask for an ingredient list every single time, even if I have been there before, but it is in no way balanced and still highly highly restrictive and specific. The changes only really came as an adult because I wanted it to be less awkward socially when I went out for food. I have been to an Italian restaurant and asked for plain pasta only to refuse it because there was a drizzle of olive oil on it.
It’s partly how things smell (I will gag and throw up if I smell ketchup or tuna), partly how things look, texture. Sometimes I don’t even know why, I just can’t.
I tried explaining it to my husband once when we gave our baby baked beans for the first time. I couldn’t be in the room and I couldn’t wipe down the baby. I would have more willingly held her with my bare hands if she had been covered in poo. I’m not a generally squeamish person, blood, guts, poop all absolutely fine. But if I got mayonnaise on my hand I’d have to go and be sick almost immediately.
There is so much more I can say, but just that, I know some children are just being fussy or awkward, but some just can’t.

Agree 100%

So called fussy eaters were not tolerated when I was a kid. Eat whats put down or go hungry. We still grew up

Some children with additional needs would go hungry to the point of needing to be hospitalised though.

I am amazed that there are so many people who think that because they have not experienced something then it clearly cannot exist, or who smugly congratulate themselves because they think their superior parenting means they will ENSURE it does not exist.

I have never been to Iceland, the USA or Africa. But I am given to understand these places exist.

I personally do not have cerebral palsy, rheumatoid arthritis or (to date) cancer, but I believe these things exist.

I have never understood algebra or fucking year 7 Geography questions about contour lines on ordnance survey maps but I am prepared to accept that some people do.

However. I have a child who has the following;

• ASD

-ADHD -Dyspraxia -Tourettes syndrome -asthma -extremely low IQ thanks to a birth injury -severe learning difficulties

• peanut anaphylaxis

-cold urticaria - anaphylactic (I know, I had to google it too) -sensory processing disorder - inlcuding issues with clothes, textures, heat and food.

I truly envy people on this thread who think that food issues are all about the shit parenting. I envy that you will never ever understand and that you have no fucking idea.

Year 7 orientation day a few weeks ago- one of the mums asked me and another mum if we were worried about covid. I said yes I was. The other mum downed her glass of wine and said 'I'm not living my life in fear'. I just thought well hooray for her. She has not got a fucking clue what it is like for a parent with a vulnerable child.

many people have no fucking clue. I have no wish that you will never personally know what it is like- but in the meantime can you not be grateul for your good fortune and have a little bit of compassion for the rest of us.

Thank you.

Starving a child with ARFID in the expectation that it'll eventually eat is like taking all the food away from someone with bulimia and expecting it to cure them. FFS! Some of these posters sound horrific! Absolutely zero understanding on an issue they have absolutely no experience of so therefore it doesn't exist. I'd like to think we're more aware of genuine psychological phobias nowadays and can actually support them, rather than harking back to the good old days of being served yesterday's tea for breakfast.

@ReadtheFT

Because westernised children are pandered to the point of ridiculousness. Only in countries where children are this spoilt do you get parents insisting that little Johnny couldn’t possibly eat anything other than yellow chicken nuggets with a tail, because he’d simply starve himself until he collapsed with hunger 🙄 I lived on the outskirts of udon Thani in Thailand for 14 years. It’s hardly a third world country, there’s a good education/healthcare and standard of living. But the whole attitude to children there is like living on another planet. A regular (very nutritious) breakfast for the kids would be whatever insects they found fried in a net that was placed under a spot light that was left on through the night (obviously for that reason). The rest of the meals pretty much consisted on stir fried veg and whatever meat happened to be available at the time, mostly rat during monsoon season. I never came across a single child that whinged and emotionally blackmailed their parents into providing other food, which they then still didn’t eat! Every child there just eats without complaint, it’s food, not poison. I find it so hard to bite my tongue on threads like these where parents are berated for making their children choke down the majority of normal, every day foods because it’s apparently cruel 🙄

This, this, this.
The very very rare situation of a child so severely autistic he would starve himself is likely not the reason for all thos fussy children threads. I would get rid of all the processed crap (chicken nuggets etc) and cook decent food. If they dont like it they can go to bed hungry. Not having dinner for 6 days is not starving yourself 🙄

2 weeks. That's how long DD went with a bag of crisps and an ice cream a day. Possibly an apple if it was a really good day. No milk either as she dropped that at 11 months. She was 2 and a half. She didn't eat processed food, she didn't eat healthy food. She didn't eat sweets. She was 3 when she finally accepted pancakes. I had to reintroduce everything, including toast and spent years working on her recognising hunger and accepting foods. She's NT as well. She's a lot better now , but still quite limited and that still includes a lot of processed foods.

I am assuming there are things in processed foods that make them more palatable to some children/adults and which therefore in their mind makes them safe food.

If such foodstuffs aren't available to you, if there is not so much choice, then maybe you are not so impacted by sensory overload where food is concerned. Would it be similar to the argument that more children struggle in classrooms nowadays because they are noisier, brighter have more stimuli than they used to.

accidentallyonPorpouse what do tou call crisps and ice cream, are they not processed foods? High levels of fat salt and sugar?
If all there was in the house was fruit and veg she d probably still have a limited diet but it would include healthier stuff.
Kids dont buy crisps themselves, parents give it to them.

@ReadtheFT

accidentallyonPorpouse what do tou call crisps and ice cream, are they not processed foods? High levels of fat salt and sugar? If all there was in the house was fruit and veg she d probably still have a limited diet but it would include healthier stuff. Kids dont buy crisps themselves, parents give it to them.

A two and a half year old only eats an ice cream and a bag of crisps daily and nothing else and you focus on semantics and terminology?

We were on holiday by the way and it continued at home. She weaned fine btw, eating home cooked meals and finger food and just started gradually dropping foods (milk first) until we ended up where we did.

Do you understand the concept of having to reintroduce even toast ffs?

[quote Soubriquet]@Winniemarysarah

Do you believe depression doesn’t exist in the western world? Cos you know people have it so much harder elsewhere.

No?

Eating disorders such as ARFID is a medical problem not just pickiness[/quote]
There’s no part of your post that really relates to anything I’ve put in mine, so I’m not too sure what you mean. Of course depression exists in Asia and in Europe, so does afrid. In Europe peoples approach seems to lead to a child eating apparently nothing but chicken nuggets, but as long as they’re the right shape and colour. In Thailand you get what you’re given. With severe cases of afrid you may try to avoid the few foods that trigger the most severe reaction, but it’s generally a case of exposure therapy, as in this is what we have so you better get used to it. And guess what? They do. You don’t get fussy eaters dropping dead all over the place. And I didn’t necessarily think this thread was specifically about people with disabilities, just fussy eating.

@Winniemarysarah do you think making people eat something that distresses them severely is a good thing, when there are alternative foods available?

I'm also assuming no reasonable adjustment is made for many people with disabilities in some countries, is this a good thing?

accidentallyonPorpouse the point is not the semantics, the point is that junk is offered as an alternative when normal foods are "dropped".if weaning is fine healthy foods should continue being offered, and removed if not eaten. Eventually she d find something acceptable from the offered healthy foods surely.
But what happens here is " Oh, you dont like pasta anymore, here s some toast/cereal/other sugary food.
Not blaming anyone, parenting isnt easy. But on those threads the conclusion is always that the fussy child must have sensory issues, and it just isnt the case in the vast majority of cases.
If where u lived there was NOTHING other then vegetables grains and some meat, there wouldn't be this issue, other then very extreme cases.in third world country you dont see kids actually starving themselves thru fussiness

I really feel your pain, though not quite so restrictive I have two children who basically refuse to eat the same meal. I’m vegetarian and have never cooked so much meat in my life till my son came along. I cook basically he same six things on repeat and add other side dishes as experiments. I’ve had judgment from friends and family but I am so so sick of the planning, shopping and cooking of meals that just don’t get eaten that as a previous ‘foody’ my ideal meal when no kids is now cheese and crackers as I am so over cooking!
@AveryGoodlay I have an overriding memory from my childhood of being forced to eat ravioli until I eventually vomited onto my plate. I have a sister who developed anorexia at the age of 7 and died from it as an adult. Of course parents can cause food issues in their children.

I remember DB being forced to eat fish and watching, in horrified admiration, the spectacular display of projectile vomiting that followed That took some clearing up! Many years later, I do not ignore his food preferences, restrictive though they are...

I so sympathise with this, it's so draining trying to come up with something to suit everyone and I only have two DC. They're both fussy in different ways. I can't say much as I was the same as a child. I'm sure this is my penance for driving my mother crazy!

For me it was sensory. I couldn't stand the textures of some food, particularly onions and mushrooms - I still can't eat them as an adult unless they're mushed to pulp and mixed into the rest of the meal so I don't notice, even though I eat practically everything else now and really enjoy experimenting with food. It will come right eventually. There's no point taking a hardline - my mum tried in exasperation once and I vomited all over the kitchen floor, vividly remember it almost 30 years later. With my DCs I just ensure to give them a daily multi vitamin and always serve at least one thing I know they'll like. I encourage them to try and offer up new food but after that it's up to them - it's not a battle worth having.

2 weeks. That's how long DD went with a bag of crisps and an ice cream a day. Possibly an apple if it was a really good day.

Why? What happened? I scrolled back but it hink I possibly missed one of your posts?

Oh I feel your pain OP. I have an ARFID child. We were advised to feed what they will eat as the most important thing is to get the calories in when they're very restricted. They were diagnosed by Elizabeth Shea who is well known for her work around asd and eating.