Low risk women/better birth facilities - unfair?

[Glassofshloer]

When DD was a baby we attended a breastfeeding appointment at my local stand-alone birth centre and WOW! To say it was gorgeous is an understatement - double bed, huge whirlpool bath thing, fairy lights and bouncy balls in every room. Looked like the Ritz compared to the tiny, dimly lit room on the CDU where I gave birth. Just a bed and some wall stickers of flowers

AIBU to think this is unfair on high risk/Consultant led women? And that we all deserve equal facilities, high risk or not? Fully prepared to be told IABU!

YANBU. We all deserve dignity and choice. Environment matters tremendously, and the seeming support of a 2 tier system, comfort and support wise, for preg women is hideously unfair.

I had a brilliant birth in Watford MLU 8 years ago (only 1 pool room and no bed or comfy chair for partners when I went, though we were left til morning as it wasn't too busy) - then was transferred to postnatal which was hell on toast and left me with PTSD.
This time round I'm planning HB or C section, depending on whether baby turns.

YANBU. It is so unfair that low-risk women get the calm, gentle atmosphere. Surely it's not that hard to have the same atmosphere on normal delivery suites?

Better the low-risk women be siphoned off to another area freeing up the high-risk beds for the high-risk women. Or would you rather the high-risk area be filled with people instead?

I used the low-risk suite the first time, and was moved the second time. No big faff and I was glad not to take up a bed someone needed when I didn't.

If you want pools, balls and fairy lights in the main wards, you can always just ask for that. They don't seem at odds with high-risk pregnancies though the pool may affect monitoring.

But this isn’t about letting high risk women into the low risk units and vice versa, @Rannva

It’s about bringing the high risk units/labour wards up to scratch to match the MLU facilities - a pool in most rooms, double or better beds, more space to walk around, midwives who want to make it as gentle and supported experience as possible. Rather than sticking you on a bed with a drip in and carting you off for the inevitable assisted delivery/c-section when you don’t give birth quickly and smoothly.

And also making wireless monitoring etc standard to give more women the option of using the pool.

@Glassofshloer

But this isn’t about letting high risk women into the low risk units and vice versa, *@Rannva*

It’s about bringing the high risk units/labour wards up to scratch to match the MLU facilities - a pool in most rooms, double or better beds, more space to walk around, midwives who want to make it as gentle and supported experience as possible. Rather than sticking you on a bed with a drip in and carting you off for the inevitable assisted delivery/c-section when you don’t give birth quickly and smoothly.

Amen

I used to design MLU and hospital rooms.

The design parameters are to the mm. You have more leigh way in a MLU.

No one wants a birthing ball bouncing round when someones crashing and you have a million people running round a room.

This was the impression I had from the obstetrician who objected to the idea candles should be on Labour wards. In an emergency they need quick access to everything. They can't have crap in the way.

@LemonSwan

I used to design MLU and hospital rooms.

The design parameters are to the mm. You have more leigh way in a MLU.

No one wants a birthing ball bouncing round when someones crashing and you have a million people running round a room.

So make the room bigger to give medics some space in case there is an emergency? It would also give the woman more space to move around during labour, so win-win. I really don’t believe that having a ball or pool in the room would result in a pile-up of medical staff if the room was sufficiently spacious with room around the bed.

@Franca123

This was the impression I had from the obstetrician who objected to the idea candles should be on Labour wards. In an emergency they need quick access to everything. They can't have crap in the way.

Why would some battery operated tea lights on a windowsill be in the way?

I will repeat, what happens in an obstetric emergency in the MLU? Placental abruption etc can happen to anyone and have presumably happened in MLUs. Did all the medical staff fall in the pool or trip over the ball trying to get to the woman?

Its not that simple.

All rooms need to be a maximum distance from a nursing station, doctors offices and other ancillary rooms - wait rooms, lounges, clean and dirty sluices etc.

You increase the sizes of rooms, and you need more additional rooms, and more staff to man those rooms.

You also need a bigger building. As you usually have room, corridor, room. So this needs to correspond with other room sizes in the hospital, as otherwise you have a floor which doesnt match the other floors.

Larger rooms in hospitals are usually the scanning rooms, so a birthing suite might fit with those, but you cant have general rooms around scanning rooms because as MRI machine can lift a small car, or decapitate someone wearing a necklace.

You would not believe the design that goes into hospitals. They are about efficiency. And no ones trying to be mean. Its not just cost efficiency, its speed efficiency - time to get people from one place to another, across a room, equipment around etc.

Quite often now they are trying to build MLUs attached to hospitals. So its best of both worlds. If you have the option I would suggest this.

I don’t doubt that @LemonSwan and I know it would be very expensive to put these things right. But that doesn’t stop me from wanting them to. I won’t get what I’m asking for but I can still say it’s unfair.

Sorry to ask again but presumably medical staff feel they can deal with medical emergencies in MLUs just fine?

That said I have gained a lot of valuable information about my rights when it comes to my next birth, so I’m feeling more confident I can insist upon making my own choices (within reason). Which hopefully means a gentle induction and the pool!

@LemonSwan

Its not that simple.

All rooms need to be a maximum distance from a nursing station, doctors offices and other ancillary rooms - wait rooms, lounges, clean and dirty sluices etc.

You increase the sizes of rooms, and you need more additional rooms, and more staff to man those rooms.

You also need a bigger building. As you usually have room, corridor, room. So this needs to correspond with other room sizes in the hospital, as otherwise you have a floor which doesnt match the other floors.

Larger rooms in hospitals are usually the scanning rooms, so a birthing suite might fit with those, but you cant have general rooms around scanning rooms because as MRI machine can lift a small car, or decapitate someone wearing a necklace.

You would not believe the design that goes into hospitals. They are about efficiency. And no ones trying to be mean. Its not just cost efficiency, its speed efficiency - time to get people from one place to another, across a room, equipment around etc.

Quite often now they are trying to build MLUs attached to hospitals. So its best of both worlds. If you have the option I would suggest this.

You're wasting your time. I've tried explaining that to have all of these things on a delivery suite will require larger rooms, which will either mean less rooms in total or new hospitals being built. Less rooms won't work as the majority of hospitals already have too few beds and it is completely unrealistic to expect new hospitals to be built when the NHS (to put it bluntly) is fucked. There's no point in keep saying it as people on here read what they want. I am sympathetic however I'm a realist, I don't know if other posters would rather the birthing centres closed altogether and made everyone go down the main delivery suite route, as that is the only realistic way I can see the same amenities being offered to both high risk and low risk women, so rather than everyone getting double beds/birthing pools etc then no one gets it.

@mummyh2016

I don’t think you ever did answer when I asked if you know how it sounds when you enjoyed the MLU at all of our expense, yet dismiss this facilities as unimportant for other people?

Why is there money for your experience, but not ours?

@LemonSwan

I used to design MLU and hospital rooms.

The design parameters are to the mm. You have more leigh way in a MLU.

No one wants a birthing ball bouncing round when someones crashing and you have a million people running round a room.

Oh give over. That’s a pathetic and thin excuse.

It’s amazing how women who had great facilities & experiences bang on about how there is ‘no money’ for other people’s 🙄

There’s all kinds of crap in hospitals. Ultimately it’s about priorities and what is seen as important and what is seen as trivial. Apparently women’s subjective well-being is a trivial and irrelevant concern to the birthing process as far as the medical establishment are concerned.

As the op (midwife) stated, better facilities lead to better outcomes which would decrease the need for expensive theatre time. It’s just paying more later to avoid paying less now. And I refuse to believe after wasting 500 million on test & trace that there is ‘no money’ for better healthcare.

Plus when you think about it, one Caesarian is very likely to lead to another, so if the first one can be avoided through better care, wouldn’t this save maternity services a shit ton of money?

@Glassofshloer

Plus when you think about it, one Caesarian is very likely to lead to another, so if the first one can be avoided through better care, wouldn’t this save maternity services a shit ton of money?

Maybe. But some women want c sections, and they shouldn't be denied.

And the avoidance of a c section can lead to different complications and expenses.

Of course @JoborPlay

But there seems to be a real cascade of intervention - one (reasonably minor) condition, let’s say marginally high blood pressure or asthma, leads to CDU. Which means no pool & time pressures. Which means more likely to need a theatre/instrumental delivery. Which means more likely to have PND or birth injuries. Which means more likely a repeat c-section etc. An on it goes.

Of course any woman that requests a c section should have one, I don’t think they should need to make a case for it as long as they understand the risks.

But looking back, had I been sent to the MLU after having my waters broken (or been given the same treatment as an MLU mum rather), there’s every chance I would’ve had a much better birth and taken up less NHS resources in the process.

Despite making normal and good labour progress, they decided to put me on a syntocin drip. Looking back it’s plainly obvious that they did it to speed me up because they wanted the room back (it was so busy I had to wait 3 days on the induction ward for a room to begin with!!). But the drip meant I needed an epidural, which meant I had to lie on the bed & couldn’t feel to push, a very long second stage, huge tearing where I had been forcing it, an infection, further doctor time and antibiotics to treat it etc.

Of course that may have happened had they put me in a pool and left me to it, but the facts suggest being upright & in water reduce the length of second stage and tearing etc.

The current system seems to benefit nobody, not mothers, not NHS staff and not the taxpayer.

Argh sorry, thinking back it annoys me so much!! 😆

@Glassofshloer because writing back to you is like talking to a brick wall, it's pointless and you disregard 90% of what I put!
I wouldn't say I enjoyed it, it's a bit of a weird phrase as I doubt anyone enjoys labour. And the likelihood with this pregnancy is that I probably won't be able to use it and will have to go to the main delivery suite which is okay. In my last labour I couldn't have cared where I was, I just wanted baby out. And if I'm in the main delivery suite I get drugs so win win let's see you pull this post apart now.

[quote Glassofshloer]@mummyh2016

I don’t think you ever did answer when I asked if you know how it sounds when you enjoyed the MLU at all of our expense, yet dismiss this facilities as unimportant for other people?

Why is there money for your experience, but not ours?[/quote]
And in relation to your comment about there being money for my experience and not yours, I would hazard a guess that your birth likely cost the NHS more than mine did.

I would hazard a guess that your birth likely cost the NHS more than mine did.

Exactly. Good facilities and lowering the chance of intervention is in everyone’s best interests in terms of cost.