Low risk women/better birth facilities - unfair?

[Glassofshloer]

When DD was a baby we attended a breastfeeding appointment at my local stand-alone birth centre and WOW! To say it was gorgeous is an understatement - double bed, huge whirlpool bath thing, fairy lights and bouncy balls in every room. Looked like the Ritz compared to the tiny, dimly lit room on the CDU where I gave birth. Just a bed and some wall stickers of flowers

AIBU to think this is unfair on high risk/Consultant led women? And that we all deserve equal facilities, high risk or not? Fully prepared to be told IABU!

I disagree that the high risk needs of some women prevent them from being able to use simple things like patient controlled lights a second comfortable chair for a partner or a birth ball or aromatherapy diffusers.

We also know giving birth laying down on your back in the lithotomy position puts women at a higher risk of tears and failure to progress. The person it benefits the most is the obstetrician. With the introduction of walking epidurals and wireless monitoring there is even less need for beds to take center stage at a birth. The MLU I gave birth in only brought out the Murphy style bed once DS was born before that it was a room with a pool, lights and other active birth equipment, it kind of looked like a weird soft play rather than a spa.

Even a high risk birth should be woman focused, and incorporating "holistic" things like pleasant decor, lighting and sound systems are not expensive and would gonsome way to helping high risk mothers feel that they aren't "failing" because they can't use the new and shiny MLU facilities.

With the introduction of walking epidurals and wireless monitoring there is even less need for beds to take center stage at a birth.

Nobody even mentioned walking epidurals/wireless monitoring to me when I was pregnant. I get the feeling they’re few and far between, and not really brought up as an option in case women actually ask for them hopefully I’m not being too unfair there…

@glassofshloer yes, again they don't really offer them unless you ask, and in lots of cases you will need to request them before you go into labor with someone "higher up" to make sure your birth preferences are respected.

And again it will be dependent on the facilities available in your trust postcode lottery style. Great if you live somewhere with all the kit, incredibly frustrating if they don't have it!

Although a walking epidural is essentially a lower dose so they wouldn't nessasarily need extra "stuff" its whether your local anesthetist is trained in it or not.

Seriously?! Just be thankful you are lucky enough to live in a country that has facilities for high risk pregnancies. Honestly, some people.

@Briony123

Seriously?! Just be thankful you are lucky enough to live in a country that has facilities for high risk pregnancies. Honestly, some people.

Yes, seriously. What was your experience out of interest?

@Briony123

Seriously?! Just be thankful you are lucky enough to live in a country that has facilities for high risk pregnancies. Honestly, some people.

Yeah heaven forbid women feel like they are respected and capable on one of the most stressful and important days of their lives 🙄

But other people in other places have it worse so we shouldn't try to do any better when we know we can.

@WeeWelshWoman

I was just frustrated that being high risk, there wasn't a proper chair/ comfy chair for my poor husband to sit in (plenty of room for it) but the lower risk delivery suites had sofas and comfy chairs!

Plenty of room for it until the room is full of medics in an emergency saving your arse and your "poor husband" is watching the very real possibility of losing his wife or baby or both and, funnily enough, not remotely bothered as to the availability of an easy chair for him to rest his weary head in.

@Briony123

Seriously?! Just be thankful you are lucky enough to live in a country that has facilities for high risk pregnancies. Honestly, some people.

Life is not race to the bottom. Just because some people have things worse in life be that medical care, relationship or other areas it doesn’t mean should good medical care and strive for better.

Incredibly close to death. Both of us.
Lava lamps, I am sure, are lovely. But surplus to requirements in a medical environment.

@Briony123

Incredibly close to death. Both of us. Lava lamps, I am sure, are lovely. But surplus to requirements in a medical environment.

Can I ask for some more details, seeing as it is presumably the reason for your contribution to this thread? Were you on CDU from the get-go?

Exactly @Fallagain

I never get the ‘just be grateful you’re not…’ brigade.

By that logic none of us deserve anything, ever, apart from clinging to life itself and hoping we don’t die. Not a bar that I feel is high enough considering we spend our lives paying taxes before ceasing to ever exist again

Women can expect safe care and also want to be treated with respect and dignity and to not come out of the experience traumatised. Really don’t understand why some people get so annoyed at any suggestion of what might make the experience more positive for women, no wonder so many are still facing poor treatment and conditions when there’s this weird resistance to improving birth experience along with insistence that women are supposed to suffer and have no dignity and just be GRATEFUL to leave with their baby and get over their trauma.
And all of the suggestions on this thread about what needs/could be improved goes way beyond fairy lights or lava lamps..

Obstetric emergencies don't just appear out of nowhere and are far less likely to occur if a woman is in a calm and comfortable environment. Regardless of her level of risk.

You can have crash and resus equipment and a dimmer switch on the lights they are not mutually exclusive. You can have a chair your birth partner can sit comfortably in and space to access all sides of a bed. You can have a CTG monitor and a plug in speaker.

Just because you were content with a practical bare bones experience that only focused on keeping you alive does not mean that every other womans birth experience should be the same, or that another woman who had a similar experience to you would be equally as content. And her feeling disappointed with not having the experience she was hoping for does not make her frivolous or selfish.

@HairsprayBabe

Obstetric emergencies don't just appear out of nowhere and are far less likely to occur if a woman is in a calm and comfortable environment. Regardless of her level of risk.

You can have crash and resus equipment and a dimmer switch on the lights they are not mutually exclusive. You can have a chair your birth partner can sit comfortably in and space to access all sides of a bed. You can have a CTG monitor and a plug in speaker.

Just because you were content with a practical bare bones experience that only focused on keeping you alive does not mean that every other womans birth experience should be the same, or that another woman who had a similar experience to you would be equally as content. And her feeling disappointed with not having the experience she was hoping for does not make her frivolous or selfish.

Yes they do. I've seen many labours where the woman was healthy , the pregnancy completely uncomplicated and there was a sudden cord prolapse, or shoulder dystopia or PPH. Being within 2 minutes of an obstetrician and/or theatre was life saving. It's very ignorant to think that if you get to labour in an uncomplicated fashion then you'll definitely be OK.

I've seen many labours where the woman was healthy , the pregnancy completely uncomplicated and there was a sudden cord prolapse, or shoulder dystopia or PPH. Being within 2 minutes of an obstetrician and/or theatre was life saving.

But they could happen in a stand-alone MLU couldn’t they? And presumably they would deal with it even with a sofa in the room or a pool in the corner?!

@yippyyippy I genuinely feel like some women who have very negative birth experiences don't want to see it improved for other women because they had a bad time so why shouldn't everyone else.

It's like the reaction you get when, if you talk about having a good experience you are either fibbing or insane. Like birth is "supposed" to be horrible so why should we try to improve it. Just be put up with whatever happens to you, shut up and enjoy your baby nothing else matters. Then we wonder why things like PTSD after birth and PND are on the rise!

Midwives are trained to deal with all of the emergencies you mentioned and for an in hospital MLU an OB is available immediately.

And having one of these emergencies doesn't prevent you from benefitting from, calm lighting, pleasant decor, space to move etc. In the early part of your labor which is not only beneficial to the womans experience but also makes these emergencies much less likely to occur in the first place.

Then we wonder why things like PTSD after birth and PND are on the rise!

Are they on the rise or are they diagnosed more often? You’d find no mention of PND on my medical records after my first pregnancy because any kind of mental ill health was so stigmatised at that time that I didn’t disclose my symptoms.

It’s so much better now that women are able to be more open but I don’t imagine those conditions are any more prevalent now than they were in the past when we were universally told to put up and shut up.

“It's very ignorant to think that if you get to labour in an uncomplicated fashion then you'll definitely be OK”

I don’t think anyone has said if you get to labour in an uncomplicated fashion you’ll definitely be OK?

The point is if you have a calm and relaxed environment no matter what risk category you’re in you’re more likely to have a better outcome and less complicated recovery physically and mentally.

So it’s about increasing the odds of this as much as possible.

Exactly, I have seen many midwives and maternity care workers argue that labour wards could be far better designed with the needs of women in mind and you could absolutely incorporate elements of MLUs/birth centres alongside safety equipment and quick access to doctors and theatres. You don’t have to have one without the other. And a comfortable, private environment is more likely to actually aid a smoother labour with less need for intervention in some cases. I don’t understand the argument for making sure we don’t make birth environments nicer for women?

@blossomtoes

So we should be encouraged to talk about our feelings after birth but not to actively try to challenge the things that might be contributing to trauma and poor maternal mental health in the first place?

[quote HairsprayBabe]@blossomtoes

So we should be encouraged to talk about our feelings after birth but not to actively try to challenge the things that might be contributing to trauma and poor maternal mental health in the first place?
[/quote]
Where did I say that? Jesus, there’s nowhere like MN for invention. I just questioned your assertion that post natal PTSD and PND are on the rise. I think those conditions have always existed undiagnosed.

During my antenatal classes a rather annoying dad to be asked the instructor why hospitals didn't have more candles etc..... as that helped women give birth. The instructor was also an obstetrician. She barked back it him that in case of an emergency, candles etc..... got in the way of doctors saving the woman's life. I really enjoyed this moment tbh. Made him look really silly and he was being a right twat considering he wasn't even pregnant and twelve women in the room were heavily pregnant.

Apologies @blossomtoes it read that way to me.

It is great that maternal mental health is being more openly discussed and we should be doing all we can to increase the chances of having a positive birth for all women regardless of their level of risk.

@HairsprayBabe

Apologies *@blossomtoes* it read that way to me.

It is great that maternal mental health is being more openly discussed and we should be doing all we can to increase the chances of having a positive birth for all women regardless of their level of risk.

No problem. Thanks for the apology 💐