Low risk women/better birth facilities - unfair?

[Glassofshloer]

When DD was a baby we attended a breastfeeding appointment at my local stand-alone birth centre and WOW! To say it was gorgeous is an understatement - double bed, huge whirlpool bath thing, fairy lights and bouncy balls in every room. Looked like the Ritz compared to the tiny, dimly lit room on the CDU where I gave birth. Just a bed and some wall stickers of flowers

AIBU to think this is unfair on high risk/Consultant led women? And that we all deserve equal facilities, high risk or not? Fully prepared to be told IABU!

People are asking for more pleasant surroundings, space to move around and a dimmer switch.

Neither of which take up any more space than grotty peeling paint and a standard light switch.

We know small changes to the environment improve outcomes for women of all risk levels and there is no reason these type of things can't be included in an obstetric setting.

I also completely disagree with you that life threatening emergencies pop up out of the blue often. Emergencies like that are mercifully rare and all you are doing is pointlessly fear mongering.

I was low risk and gave birth in a birthing centre with and amazing midwife but then unfortunately had to make full use of the adjacent neonatal unit, consultant, paediatricians etc. So I absolutely don’t agree with PP that low risk women ‘miss out’ from not having doctors attending as standard.

I agree with the OP it would be amazing if there were the resources to make delivery suite rooms as pleasant to be in as the birth centre. I was in a delivery suite for a while with one birth and it was horrible in comparison.

[quote yippyyippy]@pianolessons1 but isn’t that why only women who meet a certain criteria are recommended for MLUs (and the same with home birth ect). That’s why when you look at statistics for low-risk women they have just as good outcomes at home or birth centres as hospital (yet with lower intervention) so no increased risk by not being on a labour ward.[/quote]
But those stats hide a few tragedies. I've seen a few. Blue lighted in from an MLU 10 minutes from the hospital (not counting the time to get thru to 999, for the ambulance to come etc) with tragic permanent outcomes. MLUs that aren't right next to a Labour ward should be shut.

I’m not disagreeing to an extent I’m just saying plush hotel it needs not be and that naked flames would be a huge issue.

Dimmer switches and extra comfy chairs sure. Birth balls and bean bags in each room again sure.

But not all midwife led get private double bedrooms after giving birth either in fact the majority don’t.

And well I’d of used my own pool if there was a community midwife available to be sent out costing the nhs even less money but they where all busy being called to the main delivery ward due to staff cuts. I’d happily of never stepped foot inside the hospital for any of births.

I did get a lovely trainee midwife however and helped her working towards getting her qualified by adding to her number of deliveries. The toast and hot chocolate offered after though where just as rubbish as what those get offered on main ward if that makes you feel better though.

And well I’d of used my own pool if there was a community midwife available to be sent out costing the nhs even less money but they where all busy being called to the main delivery ward due to staff cuts. I’d happily of never stepped foot inside the hospital for any of births.

Yes but luckily for you there was a pool available, and all I’m saying is everyone should get the opportunities you had I mean your only argue against that if you see yourself as somehow more worthy than others.

Bet you have a great view of homebirth too @pianolesson1 even though a midwife attended homebirth is safer than going to a hospital for low risk multips, for both mother and baby.

@Glassofshloer

Exactly *@Fallagain*

I never get the ‘just be grateful you’re not…’ brigade.

By that logic none of us deserve anything, ever, apart from clinging to life itself and hoping we don’t die. Not a bar that I feel is high enough considering we spend our lives paying taxes before ceasing to ever exist again

Indeed. I’m always reminded of this picture when I see comments like that

and all I’m saying is everyone should get the opportunities you had

No they shouldn't. Opportunities should be based on risk. Should a midwife be expected to be able pull a woman with a high BMI out of a birthing pool if they haemorrhage or faint? Or even get cramp? Of course not.

@JoborPlay

and all I’m saying is everyone should get the opportunities you had

No they shouldn't. Opportunities should be based on risk. Should a midwife be expected to be able pull a woman with a high BMI out of a birthing pool if they haemorrhage or faint? Or even get cramp? Of course not.

So fat women deserve crappy birthing facilities? You are charming.

@nocoolnamesleft

Don't low risk women deserve equal access to the back up of rapid access to consultants, theatres, blood bank, paediatricians, and a neonatal unit?

Exactly. I think OP's got this the wrong way around. In much of the world, it's normal to have an obstetrician, not just for the birth but for the pregnancy.

Low risk women do have equal access to doctors etc. in this country, if needed they will be there. They are just less likely to have any use for them.

Low risk women can even choose to give birth on a labour ward if they want to, they have every available option open to them.

High risk women should be afforded the same level of care and facilities as a low risk woman unless there is a specific reason something else is needed. Care plans for delivery should be individualised by a midwife and (OB if needed) at 36-38 weeks, that's what the NICE guidelines reccomend I doubt anyone is getting that kind of service though!

So fat women deserve crappy birthing facilities? You are charming.

Yes, that's exactly what I said. Your comprehension skills are astounding.

And just to be clear, it isn't at all what I said. What I said is that use of facilities needs to be weighed against risk. Should anyone faint or haemorrhage or be unable to exit a birthing pool without high level of assistance in an emergency then how that person is safely removed needs to be looked at. You cannot expect a single midwife to be able to quickly and safely remove a person with a high BMI, especially when they're wet and slippery creating additional difficulty. It's a practical step.

And I'm a fat person.

@JoborPlay

and all I’m saying is everyone should get the opportunities you had

No they shouldn't. Opportunities should be based on risk. Should a midwife be expected to be able pull a woman with a high BMI out of a birthing pool if they haemorrhage or faint? Or even get cramp? Of course not.

To be fair I doubt a solitary midwife would be able to pull an average-sized 11 stone heavily pregnant woman from a pool either 🤷🏼‍♀️ Should all women be banned from pools?

@Gwenhwyfar they do have access to those things. They can choose to give birth on CDU and even if they don’t, they can be transferred if the need arises. They don’t sign a disclaimer saying ‘I understand by being on the MLU I will have no access to an obstetrician at any point’.

YANBU at all. Been reading the thread with interest. The usual depressing, dismissive posts but also some very sensible and heartening posts from HairsprayBabe and others (to the midwife who rearranges the room for her patients to make it more comfortable: you sound wonderful!)

I had the exact same thought as you, OP, after giving birth to DC1. I'd hoped to be in the MLU (which was indeed like a spa hotel) and ended up in a hellish room in the DU. Nothing to do with fairy lights (or lava lamps, that's a new one I hadn't heard before ). Things like the amount of space in the room, the lighting (don't care what lights, just the option to have dim/low lights) and ventilation. I remember the MLU room had air con and the DU room was airless and uncomfortably stuffy. Plus the MLU room had an ensuite with toilet and shower, whereas the DU room didn't even have a toilet.

I felt - and still feel - that it seems horribly unfair for women with straightforward births to get the amazing rooms and women with difficult births to get shitty rooms.

Of course it's not just about the rooms/facilities, staffing is vitally important, and both things are woefully underfunded in what's left of our NHS But you are absolutely right. Delivery units should be make as comfortable as possible for birthing women. Comfort and safety are not mutually exclusive; as several PPs have rightly pointed out, a labouring woman who is comfortable and relaxed (as relaxed as you can be when giving birth!) is less likely to need intervention and have adverse outcomes.

In the hospital where I birthed DC1, which has a MLU and a DU in the same building, only a tiny proportion of babies are born in the MLU, with the vast majority born in the DU. It does seem a tragic waste of resources that the MLU is barely used, if only the money had been invested in improving the DU.

DC2 was a home birth, so I didn't exactly have the space or facilities available in the MLU either

Giving birth is so often such a difficult, frightening experience. My advice is to forget about mood lighting and fridges - instead, have an elective c-section and get it done in the least dangerous way possible. That’s what I’d do if I had my time again.

Given the chance the government will soon demand all women give birth at home to save money and cut back more on the nhs. Be thankful for what is left, way things are going well be lucky to have birthing suites

@Annoymouser2

Given the chance the government will soon demand all women give birth at home to save money and cut back more on the nhs. Be thankful for what is left, way things are going well be lucky to have birthing suites

Be thankful for the scraps that are left after our taxes are wasted? Are you being serious?

You said it.. Going on about the birthing suites.. Nothing wrong with them, built to ensure healthy delivery of babies.. but because it doesnt have lights birthing pools... Are you being serious?

@Annoymouser2

You said it.. Going on about the birthing suites.. Nothing wrong with them, built to ensure healthy delivery of babies.. but because it doesnt have lights birthing pools... Are you being serious?

Given they improve outcomes for mothers as well as making the experience more pleasant, yes, absolutely. What is wrong with expecting good quality care from a service that we pay for?

I agree. It's what I did and it was great.

What is wrong with expecting good quality care from a service that we pay for?

There’s nothing wrong with wanting it but anyone who expects it is doomed to disappointment. Standards of care in every area of the NHS are inconsistent because at the end of the day care is provided by people. An amazing midwife will provide excellent care regardless of the environment, a poor one will provide substandard care in the swishest birthing room.

@Blossomtoes wanting, expecting, I feel like you’re splitting hairs at this point because you just don’t like the idea of other people ‘having’ something. A very common theme on this thread. It’s disappointing.

[quote Glassofshloer]@Blossomtoes wanting, expecting, I feel like you’re splitting hairs at this point because you just don’t like the idea of other people ‘having’ something. A very common theme on this thread. It’s disappointing.[/quote]
How have you managed to extrapolate that from what I said? Wanting and expecting are different. I want everyone to receive the best possible care. Sadly it’s a complete lottery and not just in maternity services.

I could interpret your view to be that if everyone can’t have something, nobody should have it. But you’re not saying that, are you?