Low risk women/better birth facilities - unfair?

[Glassofshloer]

When DD was a baby we attended a breastfeeding appointment at my local stand-alone birth centre and WOW! To say it was gorgeous is an understatement - double bed, huge whirlpool bath thing, fairy lights and bouncy balls in every room. Looked like the Ritz compared to the tiny, dimly lit room on the CDU where I gave birth. Just a bed and some wall stickers of flowers

AIBU to think this is unfair on high risk/Consultant led women? And that we all deserve equal facilities, high risk or not? Fully prepared to be told IABU!

Probably depends on where you are. I gave birth in a midwife led unit. The care was excellent but it was pretty basic/ dingy, not at all like what you have described.

@Franca123

During my antenatal classes a rather annoying dad to be asked the instructor why hospitals didn't have more candles etc..... as that helped women give birth. The instructor was also an obstetrician. She barked back it him that in case of an emergency, candles etc..... got in the way of doctors saving the woman's life. I really enjoyed this moment tbh. Made him look really silly and he was being a right twat considering he wasn't even pregnant and twelve women in the room were heavily pregnant.

yes, heaven FORBID a man should ask about something that might make his partner more happy or relaxed.

yes, heaven FORBID a man should ask about something that might make his partner more happy or relaxed

Or virtue signal how loving and caring he is in front of a room full of pregnant women, which is clearly how the pp who was actually there interpreted it.

I don’t understand the argument for making sure we don’t make birth environments nicer for women?

Going by this thread, the argument comes from women who have enjoyed MLU births yet breezily dismiss the same facilities for other women as ‘unimportant’, or women who seem to be carrying huge mental scars from their own harrowing experiences & therefore their expectations have dive bombed.

During my antenatal classes a rather annoying dad to be asked the instructor why hospitals didn't have more candles etc..... as that helped women give birth. The instructor was also an obstetrician. She barked back it him that in case of an emergency, candles etc..... got in the way of doctors saving the woman's life. I really enjoyed this moment tbh. Made him look really silly and he was being a right twat considering he wasn't even pregnant and twelve women in the room were heavily pregnant

This epitomises whats wrong with the attitude to birth in this country and the over medicialisation and often inevitable cascade of interventions. And you sound like the twat to be honest, stuff like candles that helps promote the hormone that helps during labour is not a ridiculous suggestion although obviously the hospital practicalities were overlooked; it shows he has been reading the large amount of research published on it, perhaps you should have done the same rather than be judgemental? Perhaps the clued up doctor could have suggested aromatherapy oils and lights if they wanted to also not be ridiculous and rude.

What is so fucking wrong with wanting a nice room and good facilities for one of the biggest moments of your life, meeting a human being you created from a speck and will be the biggest thing to happen to you ever?

When people get married nobody goes ‘Oh you didn’t need a nice hotel/church, you should just be grateful you have a registrar’

Ok I know weddings aren’t medical events but there are some seriously dour posters on here, who seem to want life to be nothing but a slog that you can say you got through rather than anything pleasurable or even pleasant.

I blame the 2020 mindset that if you want milk in your coffee during lockdown you’re ‘selfish’, and if you’re on the bones of your arse and want to hang on to £20 extra a week you’re ‘greedy’

Nobody seems to want anyone else to ‘have’ anything, they begrudge everything and have zero generosity of spirit

Sorry I know I’m getting carried away but 😭 some of the posts I see on here are so depressing

Jesus Christ I put the cat amongst the pigeons there. Birth is dangerous. I'm glad it's 'over medicalised'.

I could see why no candles tbh. Fire risk surely you are in a hospital there is all sorts of equipment and if there was a mad rush real candles could be forgotten about and get knocked over or anything.

Dimmer switch on the lights ok whatever but actual naked flames in a hospital regardless I’d say should be a no.

Battery operated, Horst.

Yes birth is dangerous but what I’ve seen many midwives (and other professionals very experienced and knowledgeable in birth) is that over-medicalised birth environments can be counterproductive and ignore women’s physiological and the prime conditions in which to support a smoother labour. Optimal conditions are lower lighting, privacy, uninterrupted space, quiet, women feeling safe and private and able to move freely. Often the harsh bright lighting, noise, strangers coming in and out the room, labouring woman constantly interrupted and so on actually does more harm than good. There’s no reason that units with theatres and obstetric teams and equipment can’t also try and make birthing environments more optimal for women.

Surely a pool is much dodgier Horst, because if something goes wrong they have to try to haul you soaking wet out of it? You know, like the pool you had?

@Franca123

Jesus Christ I put the cat amongst the pigeons there. Birth is dangerous. I'm glad it's 'over medicalised'.

Birth is potentially dangerous, but not inherently so. Being over medicalised doesn't mean having access to medical professionals and equipment; its often counterproductive and often leads to poorer outcomes and the over part is the important bit. Maybe do some research like the bloke you ridiculed did.

I did a lot of research thank you very much. I agree with the obstetrician.

I agree with you OP. Although - OF COURSE - the health of mother and baby are paramount I really don't understand why there is so little effort made to make the experience more pleasant as there is for the lower risk folks.

@Glassofshloer

I've seen many labours where the woman was healthy , the pregnancy completely uncomplicated and there was a sudden cord prolapse, or shoulder dystopia or PPH. Being within 2 minutes of an obstetrician and/or theatre was life saving.

But they could happen in a stand-alone MLU couldn’t they? And presumably they would deal with it even with a sofa in the room or a pool in the corner?!

If they happen in a stand alone MLU that isn't next door to a labour ward you've got a brain damaged child on your hands. That's why I think all MLUs should be next door to a labour ward and the ones in the community are dangerous.

And by next door I mean on the same floor of the same building separated by a door. Not in a different building of the hospital, or on the next street.

@Bookingfatigued

“It's very ignorant to think that if you get to labour in an uncomplicated fashion then you'll definitely be OK”

I don’t think anyone has said if you get to labour in an uncomplicated fashion you’ll definitely be OK?

The point is if you have a calm and relaxed environment no matter what risk category you’re in you’re more likely to have a better outcome and less complicated recovery physically and mentally.

So it’s about increasing the odds of this as much as possible.

Yes, someone said that obstetric emergencies don't appear out of nowhere. They very much do. I've seen it. Often.

But if those obstetric emergencies can happen to any woman, why do some of them have better facilities than others? If having a pool or double bed is so counterproductive to emergency medical care, why does any woman have them?

@Glassofshloer

But if those obstetric emergencies can happen to any woman, why do some of them have better facilities than others? If having a pool or double bed is so counterproductive to emergency medical care, why does any woman have them?

Having that stuff isn't counterproductive, but it takes up more space which some places won't have.

@Franca123

I did a lot of research thank you very much. I agree with the obstetrician.

Of course you did :)

Oh bee in your bonnet that I got to use the pool.

Sorry for pointing out that make flames would be a bad ideology. Battery operated candles always look poor. Maybe worry less with what other people had.

I guess because these women are deemed low risk and the risks involved are seen as acceptable. Whereas women deemed higher risk need to have quicker access to doctors with all the equipment that might entail. Personally I wouldn't take that risk even though I was low risk with both my pregnancies. However, I do accept that the MLU are important to other women and agree that they should be provided. That's not to say that improvements can't be and should be made to Labour wards. I think clearly there are problems.

@pianolessons1

Then surely the answer is to create better facilities which is the point of this entire thread?

@Horst

Oh bee in your bonnet that I got to use the pool.

Sorry for pointing out that make flames would be a bad ideology. Battery operated candles always look poor. Maybe worry less with what other people had.

No, bee in my bonnet that you used the pool (paid for by all our taxes!) but you’re on here arguing against that opportunity for other people.

Do you see how that looks?

@pianolessons1 but isn’t that why only women who meet a certain criteria are recommended for MLUs (and the same with home birth ect). That’s why when you look at statistics for low-risk women they have just as good outcomes at home or birth centres as hospital (yet with lower intervention) so no increased risk by not being on a labour ward.