To think all men who travel should call 777 and have their GPS tracked and location checked?

[SummersOverSeasideTown]

As it says.
I'd be open to a curfew time, so men can travel during the day maybe, but at night they would have to log their journeys and expected arrival time.

IABU and men should continue to enjoy limitless freedoms and it should be women who have to call and be tracked.

IANBU and this is a reasonable solution to the alternative.

If BT were proposing a system whereby all women must update their location and adhere to curfews etc, then the OP would be a fair comparison. They are not. They are offering an optional system that women can either use or not if they wish to. It's not the same thing. Which explains why the OP's post has generated a reaction of "don't be ridiculous", whereas the BT system has not.

@Suffolkpunch345

Obviously these things shouldn’t happen, but they do and they always have. And everyone knows that walking at night, through parks and unlit areas is dangerous.

So why not teach woman to be sensible? Improve lighting and public transport. There will always be dangers and your suggestion is frankly ridiculous. Also who is going to pay for this ? We are barely getting by as it is!

Why only women? Men get attacked too, but I rarely have ever seen them told to be careful where they walk etc.

@XelaM

No. My dad is the loveliest person you could ever meet. My brother is lovely too. Not all men are monsters we need protection from

Why don't we teach men that they have no rights to woman's body and that its not acceptable to harm us for their own gratification? It’s precisely this kind of talk which makes things worse for many victims

What the hell are you talking about? Trying to educate boys to be less misogynistic, makes things worse for victims??? Proper MRA aren’t ya?

What I'm getting from this thread is that it's totally unreasonable to place all men under surveillance and tracking... but no outrage that it's apparently perfectly acceptable to place all women under surveillance and tracking because of the actions of... men.

MN never ceases to surprise me 🤦‍♀️

And as for 'not all men', until we have a culture where men challenge misogynistic behaviour from friends, family members and colleagues instead of being passive, even if they would never behave that way themselves, then nothing's going to change. Not all men will harm women but all men have a responsibility to do whatever they can to prevent it.

Tracking and curfews on women is not the answer.

I get the argument here but it's still helpful to have things in place for women.
After some incidents that rocked my confidence I did some self defence training and it was hands down the best thing I've ever done for my anxiety and confidence.
But because of the "men should be the ones learning not to attack women" argument, rather than women having easy access to self defence courses these are difficult to access and not promoted very much to eg young women

Start a thread about the vicar
Nope, not interested in these sort of threads of taking one case and building it into a hate campaign about a whole group, of which 99.99% is innocent.

But my does say a lot about MNers' misandry which is getting worse and worse each year.

but no outrage that it's apparently perfectly acceptable to place all women under surveillance and tracking because of the actions of... men
Neither are acceptable. I don't feel the need to be under surveillance. I don't feel under threat going out, I do keep an eye on potential dangerous situation from anything and anyone.

All my friends feel the same. I know that for one men who could assault me, 10 would come to my defense.

Not all women in this country feel under threat of men, the very vast majority don't. They just don't feel the need to be vocal about it.

Not all men will harm women but all men have a responsibility to do whatever they can to prevent it
So back to the vicar, why not one thread on MN, the vast majority of posters being women to challenge as women the act of one terrible one. Isn't it our responsibility?

The double standard here is amazing!

@vivainsomnia

Not all men will harm women but all men have a responsibility to do whatever they can to prevent it So back to the vicar, why not one thread on MN, the vast majority of posters being women to challenge as women the act of one terrible one. Isn't it our responsibility?

The double standard here is amazing!

Link to your thread about the vicar please @vivainsomnia - I’d love to contribute to it.

@vivainsomnia

Start a thread about the vicar Nope, not interested in these sort of threads of taking one case and building it into a hate campaign about a whole group, of which 99.99% is innocent.

But my does say a lot about MNers' misandry which is getting worse and worse each year.

Oh sorry, just saw this. So you don’t want to start a thread?

What’s the societal effects of misandry? How does misandry affect society, in the way misogyny does?

So back to the vicar, why not one thread on MN, the vast majority of posters being women to challenge as women the act of one terrible one. Isn't it our responsibility?

Nah not back to the vicar

This is a thread about 888/777

If you want to discuss something different then start a thread…or wait til someone else does

I can only speak for myself. It would help me to feel reassured and safer.

How would an app which triggers an alert only AFTER you've failed to reach home make you safer? By that time the damage is done.

Weird to complain nobody started a particular thread in the same post as saying you didn’t want to start one.

What’s the societal effects of misandry? How does misandry affect society, in the way misogyny does?
Mmm, maybe a much higher incidence of male suicide?

Weird to complain nobody started a particular thread in the same post as saying you didn’t want to start one
Not weird at all, only pointing out how biased and hypocrite many posters are.

I wouldn't start a post about the vicar because I would hate generalisations to be made the way generalisations are made about men here. All generalisations are very wrong.

@Pumperthepumper

Weird to complain nobody started a particular thread in the same post as saying you didn’t want to start one.

Well it would require more effort than latching on to an existing thread

@vivainsomnia

Start a thread about the vicar Nope, not interested in these sort of threads of taking one case and building it into a hate campaign about a whole group, of which 99.99% is innocent.

But my does say a lot about MNers' misandry which is getting worse and worse each year.

But 99.99% of the group of males are not innocent. If only 0.01% were guilty of these crimes of rape, harassment, domestic violence, shootings, stabbings, ABH, GBH that would mean that out of a population of 67 million in the UK of which 49% are male, only 3283 males are guilty of all the above crimes. Bandying stats like "99.99%" shores up the NAMALT argument but it's simply not true. Sure, it's not all men, but it's a fuck of a lot and this branding of perpetrators as "monsters" simply allows men to distance themselves from the fact that it's a problem with males.

I also disagree with the stance that nobody loses when male violence is tackled, I think a lot of men see calling it out as an attack on their privilege - as witnessed on this very thread.

@vivainsomnia

What’s the societal effects of misandry? How does misandry affect society, in the way misogyny does? Mmm, maybe a much higher incidence of male suicide?

Weird to complain nobody started a particular thread in the same post as saying you didn’t want to start one
Not weird at all, only pointing out how biased and hypocrite many posters are.

I wouldn't start a post about the vicar because I would hate generalisations to be made the way generalisations are made about men here. All generalisations are very wrong.

Misandry doesn’t lead to male suicide- you can look this up. You’re thinking of toxic masculinity, a tiny bit of research around male suicide charities will tell you this.

You keep bringing up the vicar, if you want to talk about her, start a thread about her. I’m sure others will chip in.

So, again, what are the societal effects of misandry? Hint; there aren’t any.

@Brouhahaha

What I'm getting from this thread is that it's totally unreasonable to place all men under surveillance and tracking... but no outrage that it's apparently perfectly acceptable to place all women under surveillance and tracking because of the actions of... men.

MN never ceases to surprise me 🤦‍♀️

And as for 'not all men', until we have a culture where men challenge misogynistic behaviour from friends, family members and colleagues instead of being passive, even if they would never behave that way themselves, then nothing's going to change. Not all men will harm women but all men have a responsibility to do whatever they can to prevent it.

Tracking and curfews on women is not the answer.

What nonsense. The BT app is not mandatory. No-one, anywhere, has suggested that all women must be tracked at all, far less tracked at all times. Nor has there been a suggestion of a curfew for women. Suggesting otherwise is just disingenuous.

Some of us feel that this discourse- which verges on punitive towards all men, at times- is damaging and divisive. It diverts time, energy and resources from steps that might actually help us all. Violence against women is a massive, serious issue. It’s one that requires us to be above petty silliness and point scoring. It is my view that we need to do better than the direction the current discourse this is taking.

but no outrage that it's apparently perfectly acceptable to place all women under surveillance and tracking because of the actions of... men

Except the proposed 888 system is neither a form of surveillance nor tracking. It is an optional service that women can either choose if it helps them to feel safer, or not if it doesn't.

@urbanbuddha

I can only speak for myself. It would help me to feel reassured and safer.

How would an app which triggers an alert only AFTER you've failed to reach home make you safer? By that time the damage is done.

Because if (god forbid) I was to be abducted, there may well be a time delay between that point and my murder. Yes, I'll be significantly traumatised by whatever awful things were to happen to me in the interim. But if it means there's a chance someone sees I'm not where I should be by now, and can get to me before he kills me - I'm all for it.

Because if (god forbid) I was to be abducted, there may well be a time delay between that point and my murder.

Tiny percentage of cases. Also you'd be traumatised by abduction even if - big if - you were found before you'd been murdered.
Far better to put any available resources into more police, better street lighting, better public transport at night, etc.

@urbanbuddha

Because if (god forbid) I was to be abducted, there may well be a time delay between that point and my murder.

Tiny percentage of cases. Also you'd be traumatised by abduction even if - big if - you were found before you'd been murdered.
Far better to put any available resources into more police, better street lighting, better public transport at night, etc.

I did clearly acknowledge that I would have already been traumatised by whatever happened in the interim. However I'd rather have a system that gives me even a small chance of being found alive, however minute that may be. And yes - my support of the 888 system doesn't preclude other measures that need to exist alongside to keep women safer. Absolutely agree.

Lulu2021

The problem is sexual assault Murder is rare.
The proposed app might make aspects of the police's job easier but it wouldn't help women walking home at night. The app's a very male solution which doesn't actually help women in any way.

We should separate women attacked by someone they know in their own homes and women attacked outside by a stranger - not in the stats of attacks but in seeking g solutions. Although I suppose they all have underlying misogyny.

@urbanbuddha

Well it would help me personally to feel a bit safer and reassured.