To think all men who travel should call 777 and have their GPS tracked and location checked?

[SummersOverSeasideTown]

As it says.
I'd be open to a curfew time, so men can travel during the day maybe, but at night they would have to log their journeys and expected arrival time.

IABU and men should continue to enjoy limitless freedoms and it should be women who have to call and be tracked.

IANBU and this is a reasonable solution to the alternative.

Where are the men demanding change?

And where are the men supporting measures to make women safer?
Where are the men prepared to stand up to misogynist behaviour by colleagues, friends and family?
Where are the men who will call out those who share derogatory, misogynist, abusive content on social media?

@Clocktopus

As a woman, I cannot stand all these men hating posts!

Does every thread about problematic behaviour by men have to come with the disclaimer of NAMALT? Everyone always thinks "oooh, it's not my dad/husband/brother/son doing these awful things!" but the truth of it is that in a UN Women UK survey 97% of the women surveyed reported that they had been sexually harassed, the ONS states the 4.9 million women have been sexually assaulted or raped since the age of 16 and that overall 1 in 5 women can expect to be raped or assaulted at some point in their lifetime, 1 in 5 will be stalked, 1.6 million a year will be subjected to domestic abuse.

So clutch your pearls and insist "not my husbsnd/son/brother/dad!" but the statistics show that it is so widespread, some man that you know is a predator, probably more than one of them. Some of the people posting here will have a dad, a son, a brother, an uncle or whatever who assaults women.

It isn't man-hating to say that toxic masculinity and misogyny are problems, it isn't man-hating to say that 98.5% of sex crimes are committed by men or that 92% of domestic abusers are male, and it isn't man-hating to say that it needs to change and that men need to change.

Agree

Exactly the same as a woman would do - say coldly and firmly "Get your hand off my arse."

There is a viral video going around right now of a woman groping "Gaston" at Disneyland. He instantly calls her out on it and tells her to leave.

@VenusTiger

Getting a bit fed up of this fucking nonsense on MN. I was hounded on a previous thread similar to this previously for daring to suggest that innocent people no matter their sex should not be treated like fucking monsters - it's alienating and self-fulfilling shittery.

Just fucking fix the problem or at least understand the foundations - their youth! do they have a decent male role model? do they watch violent porn? do they have a responsible adult in their life to discuss problems with, as opposed to gang members or 'unexperienced' peers - are just some avenues to process.

Stop sticking plasters on problems. I do NOT want to EVER be in a position where I wished I'd had a daugher instead of a son, because someone in power has decided to tag ALL men.

What about young men who are set up on in the streets and stabbed - can they ring 888 too, or will they have been tracked AND a victim of a crime.

Before anyone chimes in with the oh so obvious 'you're one of those it's not all men people' - stop and think how this effects everyone - why on earth would we change the LIVES of every innonent man in this way, in order to single out the vile monsters who commit crimes - it's not realistic and it's mentally damaging.

Because we are expecting women to change their ways and modify their behaviour to mitigate these men. You say why on earth would we change the LIVES of every innonent man in this way, in order to single out the vile monsters I say why should we change the LIVES of every innocent woman in this way, in order to single out the vile monsters however spot the difference, I don't think men should be tracked.

@AmDillDandin

Tell women to avoid being out at night alone and use a tracking app = sensible precaution.

Tell men to avoid being out at night alone and use a tracking app = outrage.

You couldn't make it up.

The question is- would this suggestion actually change anything? No it wouldn’t. And what it will do is alienate a large proportion of men. And many women. It will create division and fuel conflict- and make men even less likely to engage in the issue. Not many people react well to being told they are monsters by definition, solely due to a characteristic they can do nothing about.

I hate the discourse around this issue. Yes, it’s a very serious and endemic issue. It absolutely needs addressing- it needed addressing years ago. These stupid tokenistic suggestions- curfews for all men, tracking all men, only men having to have their DNA on file- are not going to help most women or stop men who are intent on causing harm from doing so. It won’t change attitudes/change toxic masculinity/change the drivers of violence towards girls and women. Given that, it smacks of “getting revenge” and making men “pay” (albeit cloaked as something else), rather than serious attempts to address the problem at hand. We need to do- and be- better than that.

If you want things to get better, you need to address root causes/wider societal issues. Anything else is simply a distraction.

I also doubt it’s even enforceable. Are we going to mandate all men to buy a mobile phone (I know most people do already- but for this to work all would have to have one) AND must carry it all times AND must use this tracking system. The law abiding might do it. The non-law abiding/ those out with intent to cause trouble/attack someone aren’t going to. Police will not have time to stop every single man to check they have a phone/have their gps on etc. And it’s probably open to legal challenge (which is probably just as well).

@jacks11

The question is- would this suggestion actually change anything? No it wouldn’t. And what it will do is alienate a large proportion of men. And many women. It will create division and fuel conflict- and make men even less likely to engage in the issue. Not many people react well to being told they are monsters by definition, solely due to a characteristic they can do nothing about.

I hate the discourse around this issue. Yes, it’s a very serious and endemic issue. It absolutely needs addressing- it needed addressing years ago. These stupid tokenistic suggestions- curfews for all men, tracking all men, only men having to have their DNA on file- are not going to help most women or stop men who are intent on causing harm from doing so. It won’t change attitudes/change toxic masculinity/change the drivers of violence towards girls and women. Given that, it smacks of “getting revenge” and making men “pay” (albeit cloaked as something else), rather than serious attempts to address the problem at hand. We need to do- and be- better than that.

If you want things to get better, you need to address root causes/wider societal issues. Anything else is simply a distraction.

I also doubt it’s even enforceable. Are we going to mandate all men to buy a mobile phone (I know most people do already- but for this to work all would have to have one) AND must carry it all times AND must use this tracking system. The law abiding might do it. The non-law abiding/ those out with intent to cause trouble/attack someone aren’t going to. Police will not have time to stop every single man to check they have a phone/have their gps on etc. And it’s probably open to legal challenge (which is probably just as well).

What are your suggestions for change?

To those that are saying I should have opened with the BT story. I couldn't. I was outraged with all the support being given to the idea and immediately I knew that if the tables were turned there would be outrage. And I was right. Posts of NAMALT, my dad/son/brother is lovely, but no voice for the wife and daughter, mum's and sisters who shouldn't have to be tracked to feel safe (because feel is all they will do, they will not be safe)

[quote Pumperthepumper]**@StarfishDish* but they’re victims of violence from other men*. Nobody loses if we tackle male violence.[/quote]
And how have we got to a place where we need to say this, no we need to shout this. We need to tackle male violence for everyone.

@SummersOverSeasideTown

To those that are saying I should have opened with the BT story. I couldn't. I was outraged with all the support being given to the idea and immediately I knew that if the tables were turned there would be outrage. And I was right. Posts of NAMALT, my dad/son/brother is lovely, but no voice for the wife and daughter, mum's and sisters who shouldn't have to be tracked to feel safe (because feel is all they will do, they will not be safe)

I now know what you were referring to and I haven't changed my mind. NO ONE should ever be tracked.

@Pumperthepumper

I think we need to engage in education of boys from a young age- about respect, consent, what healthy relationships are and mean. We need to try and identify boys, teens/ adolescents who are clearly displaying problematic views and provide further support. We need to provide support for boys and young men without- or without good- make role models. We need to tackle the issue of easy availability of hardcore/violent porn. We need to properly fund social services and wider services for victims of domestic violence. We need to overhaul the criminal justice system so that violence against women and girls has a higher priority- that includes proper funding of police.

We also need to look at work cultures, particularly in public institutions, to try and improve equality, that those who behave inappropriately are dealt with properly and not a mere slap on the wrist. To change policies and procedures so that when girls or women raise a concern/make a complaint that they can be confident that it will be taken seriously, investigated properly and wrongdoing being met with consequences.

None of these things are going to deliver overnight change or be easy to do.

But if we indulge in petty, pointless, divisive policies- like some of those suggested- we won’t be putting time, energy and funding into those things that might deliver change. Like I said, I think we should be aiming for- and to be- better than those foolish suggestions.

So why not teach woman to be sensible?

So why not teach men not to rape and murder people?

There, fixed that sentence for you.

@jacks11

The question is- would this suggestion actually change anything? No it wouldn’t. And what it will do is alienate a large proportion of men. And many women. It will create division and fuel conflict- and make men even less likely to engage in the issue. Not many people react well to being told they are monsters by definition, solely due to a characteristic they can do nothing about.

I hate the discourse around this issue. Yes, it’s a very serious and endemic issue. It absolutely needs addressing- it needed addressing years ago. These stupid tokenistic suggestions- curfews for all men, tracking all men, only men having to have their DNA on file- are not going to help most women or stop men who are intent on causing harm from doing so. It won’t change attitudes/change toxic masculinity/change the drivers of violence towards girls and women. Given that, it smacks of “getting revenge” and making men “pay” (albeit cloaked as something else), rather than serious attempts to address the problem at hand. We need to do- and be- better than that.

If you want things to get better, you need to address root causes/wider societal issues. Anything else is simply a distraction.

I also doubt it’s even enforceable. Are we going to mandate all men to buy a mobile phone (I know most people do already- but for this to work all would have to have one) AND must carry it all times AND must use this tracking system. The law abiding might do it. The non-law abiding/ those out with intent to cause trouble/attack someone aren’t going to. Police will not have time to stop every single man to check they have a phone/have their gps on etc. And it’s probably open to legal challenge (which is probably just as well).

Excellent post - I wholeheartedly agree.

Excellent post - I wholeheartedly agree.

But do you think it is acceptable for women?

All male people should be microchipped at age 16 so they can be tracked.

All male people should be microchipped at age 16 so they can be tracked.

And it's comments like that which provoke the not all men response and turn people away from feminism.

@SummersOverSeasideTown

Excellent post - I wholeheartedly agree.

But do you think it is acceptable for women?

It's not really about acceptability. The post I agreed with is referring to effectiveness. The question of what is and isn't likely to effect positive change. And she's right. The system you are proposing for men wouldn't be engaged with as it would (rightly or wrongly) likely be perceived by them as punitive. As for women, well - If having a number to call enhances women's safety in any small way, I'm all for it, and I'd use it. That would make it effective in my eyes. And I believe that women overall would be more likely to engage with it because its intention is to keep them safer - I personally would be motivated by anything that can achieve that. But if I was a man, I wouldn't be motivated to engage with a system that tracks my whereabouts in case I happen to be a predator. Thus I don't believe that system would have similar effectiveness.

I also wholeheartedly agree with @jacks11 additional post, which outlines what would likely be more effective.

Lulu I am not suggesting a system. I think it is preposterous. I am also not convinced that intention keeps women safe.

@SummersOverSeasideTown

Lulu I am not suggesting a system. I think it is preposterous. I am also not convinced that intention keeps women safe.

You have proposed a system in your OP - you say you'd be open to a curfew and journeys being logged.

@SummersOverSeasideTown

No it may not be completely effective in keeping women safe. But my point was essentially that women are more likely to be motivated to engage with it in at least an attempt to be safer. Men are highly unlikely to be similarly motivated, because why would they? What's in for it for them?

@SummersOverSeasideTown Going back to your OP with the curfew, what would happen to the male police officers that help arrest the rapists and murderers?

No @Lulu2021 the OP is highlighting how ridiculous BTs latest announcement (backed by Priti Patel) since that's what they are suggesting women do.

This is all pointless because you’re all being tracked constantly anyway via your phones even if location is off, phone is off. This isn’t a future potential technology.

And not just by your phones..but Face ID augmented CCTV is gradually being deployed. It’s already in most airports and spreading to train stations.

The governments are working on getting access to DNA databases held by DNA testing firms...ie medical databases of genetic testing prior to TTC, ancestry databases for people wanting DNA family matches, etc to use to solve crimes.

But the most these things do is act as a deterrent because the criminal will know he will be caught (or a few she’s). It lowers crime, but will not prevent it because there are even people who deliberately commit crimes to get into prison as it can be better than being homeless.

[quote Lulu2021]@SummersOverSeasideTown

No it may not be completely effective in keeping women safe. But my point was essentially that women are more likely to be motivated to engage with it in at least an attempt to be safer. Men are highly unlikely to be similarly motivated, because why would they? What's in for it for them? [/quote]
Lulu - you do realise you have completely missed the point? I hope so.
Although it has mainly demonstrated the inability of the average MN to actually understand what point you are making OP, inversely matched by their ability to engage endlessly in pathetic oppositional non-debate, your thread has eloquently proved its point (although it has made my blood pressure rise).