Why do we have low expectations of children/adults with disabilities?

[Nivealove]

Thought twice about posting this post. But here you go.

AIBU to have high expectations of my children with disabilities? Had an disagreement with one of the DC's teachers today and she thinks it's acceptable that my 13 year old should still be learning the 2 and the 10x table. 2/3 go to special needs school. When I challenged the head and the teachers, they give me some bullshit about him not being ready and they adapt the curriculum to the child's needs. I've decided to remove me child from that school. If they stay there, they would be left with nothing.

It's the same thing everyday. It's not acceptable for a neurotypical child to not read and write. But it's acceptable if a child with a disability can not read and write. If it wasn't for me and spending ££££££ in tutors/resources and not leaving it to the school, my children would not have learnt to read and write. It- instead would be blame on their disability and not because of their poor (unambitious) teaching practices. I'm not just talking about academics, I'm talking about sports, independent skills and so forth so forth.

My children have been taught by people who see my children as individuals and have high expectations vs people who see my children by their diagnosis and 10/10 my children succeed with people who believe in them and have high expectations.

When I complain to the school, I'm seen as a mother who is in denial and haven't accepted their children's disabilities. I have- as I wouldn't have been ££££££ amount of private therapies.

I've come to realise that society as whole is like this. Rant over.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, most school totally lack any skills or training in sen.

It's getting weird.

It's utterly mind boggling why dc who have got to 16, don't know any times tables, don't understand basic maths and are forced to keep doing ratios and triangles have absolutely no idea what a budget is, how to budget, what to do etc.

@giggly if I could like your post I would. Just so sorry you’ve experienced this

@PearLime thank god they were able to go on and achieve

Your post reminded me of something that happened to us. We looked at a preschool setting with a great ofsted report and I explained dd currently had a speech delay. She then assured me they catered for all abilities including low abilities. She had assumed that speech delay meant dd wouldn’t achieve academically. In fact dd was already reading at 3. We didn’t go to that setting

[quote Lovesicecreams]@ToD101 with respect though there seem to be a lot of settings where what the op says is true. My dc have been in three placements and in none have they had good support. The picture is very mixed.[/quote]
With respect, "mixed" does not equal "most".

The OP is basically saying most (and suggesting more than most based on later posts) professionals who work with children with SEND aren't trained, don't think the children have a potential to fill and don't care.

I am refuting that as I actually work in this field, with plenty of other professionals, and have a qualification that took two years to achieve, on top of my BA and my PGCE. Yes, lots more education in SEND is needed in initial teacher training and LOTS more funding is needed. But I think it's wrong to say that we professionals, as a whole, are letting down the children we work with. Please come in and see my day-to-day work before telling me I don't have high expectations of them.

I am 36, and still don't know my times tables. I haven't achieved anything mainly due to be being a terrible student but my Sister is doing very very well in her chosen profession and still doesn't know her times tables either. I have severe mental health problems since I was a teen (16) whereas she had mild problems at Uni that she overcame.

@ToD101 I bet you do. You sound super committed

But look at the stats I posted up thread. Are those 79% of parents (more than 50% so does = most) wrong?

I suspect it’s understandably really hard for the incredibly committed staff out there, particularly those who are specialised in SN provision to believe the horrific stuff many SN parents experience from schools. You only have to read the MN SN boards to see how difficult many SN parents find liaising with schools.

I get what you are saying especially with my daughter who has complex SEN, including ASD, profound dyslexia, SPD and hypermobility.

She wasn't progressing at all in the school system. They felt she was 'too bright' for SEN school but was too anxious for mainstream (and would have been set up to fail).

With the right provision including assistive technology we have discovered that she is capable of above average GCSE''s this simply wasn't on the radar within the mainstream system who didn't even want to recognise dyslexia in the first place.

The main issue with SEN education is funding. It is not fair, the reduction in SEN provision harms capable children with SEN as they are, largely speaking, expected to cope in mainstream. I know there are exceptions to this but not within range of where I live.

This means either children fail to meet expectation in school or parents have to take on responsibility by educating at home. It's not as simple as putting in a private school for children like my daughter as they would charge for SEN provision which on top of the normal school fees and would not take on a child as complex as my daughter in the first place.

It is really a terrible message to send to our children that they don't have an appropriate school provision. It is awful for those children who are left to fail within the school system which fails to support them.

I think the problem is its not one size fits all and there are many children with SEN who are far too cognitively able to go to a generic SEN school, but cant succeed at mainstream without proper support, there are specialist schools that may fit these children, but they cost ££££, s which is why many Lea, s are reluctant to send children there this is the issue

Just in case anyone is interested in more hard evidence of what the majority of parents think, these surveys shows most parents of children with ASD feel schools are not giving their children the help they need:

www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/article/parents-of-autistic-children-let-down-by-the-new-send-reforms

www.autism-alliance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/APPGA-autism-and-education-report.pdf

One important statistic from the All Party Parliamentary Group on Autism was that “ 6in10of parents and seven in ten of their parents say that the main thing that
would make school better for them is having a teacher who understands autism”

There are huge failings in the education system for children with SN at the moment.

The OP is basically saying most (and suggesting more than most based on later posts) professionals who work with children with SEND aren't trained, don't think the children have a potential to fill and don't care.

I am refuting that as I actually work in this field, with plenty of other professionals, and have a qualification that took two years to achieve, on top of my BA and my PGCE. Yes, lots more education in SEND is needed in initial teacher training and LOTS more funding is needed. But I think it's wrong to say that we professionals, as a whole, are letting down the children we work with. Please come in and see my day-to-day work before telling me I don't have high expectations of them.

I assume then that you are either a SENDCO in mainstream, or a high-up person in special school? You’d want some return for all those qualifications and the money you now owe on student loans for doing them, right?

On a day-to-day basis most SEN education and care is carried out by TAs and care assistants.

TAs are paid between 10k and 15k for that daily interaction and are not, officially, trained teachers (many are given the need women have to balance childcare and work, but will resent professional-level demands for those kind of wages).

The involvement of teachers varies. IME many special schools are run by private companies and they are in it for the money at the highest echelons. There are indeed many dedicated staff on the ‘shop floor’ doing what they can but they get less and less formal training because it costs - especially after COVID - and professional support can be very distant.

@x2boys

I think you are being quite offensive actually Op, im glad "your" methods have worked for your child, but all children including those with disabilities are individuals and what works for one maynot work for another I want the best for my child too but im also realistic in his limitations.

@x2boys I agree actually. My non verbal 5yo can't use the toilet or communicate with AAC or PECS (yet, obviously we still have time) and OP's posts would seem to suggest I'm just not ambitious, creative or trying hard enough. It's a view a few of us SEN parents have had from professionals and it's soul destroying.

For context I am also a SEN professional so it's not like I am clueless in this area either.

Really depends on the child and their ability ...my friend is vvvvvvv pleased her non verbal child is happy and last year said mum....he 8 and can't read and write and never will. She fought hard to get in into his son school and see her previous anxious child grow in confidence until he said mum...he now says a few words but less than ten words. She working with the school re nappies at that the moment and that for her be amazing step. She nothing but amazing things about the school...

But I believe all children can learn to read and write.

Well that's a pretty belief but it's factually incorrect.

My brother has a profound learning disability and despite going to exceptional SEN schools and colleges and having my parents unwavering support still cannot read or write. That's certainly not through a lack of aspiration, my Mam still sits with him now and helps him trace letters and he's in his mid30s. Doesn't help that he is also visually impaired - but sure OP keep telling us we're not trying hard enough

Also my sons school focuses on what parents want for their children, at the moment he's in year seven he's really not interested in reading and writing at the moment, i want him to be more independent, so he's good at undressing himself (not always in appropriate places) he can dress himself of a fashion., inside out tshirts back to front trousers etc but he makes a good effort and it's definitely something to work on, he has no concept of money, but he knows if I'm going to a shop I need a debit card, so he hands them to me, he knows what house keys are for although he can't manage to lock or unlock the door yet (thankfully) I have caught him putting food in the microwave, my point is that he does have some understanding of life skills, which can be worked on for him to gain independence.

I feel like people are coming on here to try and justify how much support they give their SEN kids.It is common to feel that you are being judged by professionals when you have a child with complex needs and having the involvement of so many specialists means it is easy to feel like you have to attain an impossible standard as a parent because raising children with additional needs tends( on the whole) to be much harder than raising children without them.
So it is particularly sad that people are feeling judged by a parent with a child with special needs who should really know better. As I said earlier i refuse to be judged by anyone be that parent, professional or medical expert. I am doing the best I can and giving 100 percent and my measure of attainment is seeing my kids happy, pain free and enjoying life . Reading and writing is not even on my radar !

@x2boys

I think the problem is its not one size fits all and there are many children with SEN who are far too cognitively able to go to a generic SEN school, but cant succeed at mainstream without proper support, there are specialist schools that may fit these children, but they cost ££££, s which is why many Lea, s are reluctant to send children there this is the issue

@x2boys yup, this exact problem for my eldest

On a day-to-day basis most SEN education and care is carried out by TAs and care assistants.

I was a teacher in a specialist school for children with severe learning difficulties, until I retired recently. My involvement with the children's learning was total. My tab of TA s were amazing, but they worked entirely on my extremely detailed planning and instruction, and on the behaviour strategies that we discussed together and set collaboratively. After the group part of each lesson, led by me, yes, they would each have children to work with on the personalised planning, as often did I, but their work was constantly monitored by me so that it could be adapted if the child was finding it easy/difficult/ having behavioural issues.

What you said above is disingenuous. It implies that the TAs do all the work and the teacher has little contact with or impact on the cold. You couldn't be more wrong.

Ugh. Phone autocorrects. Tab= team. Cold= child, of course.

What you said above is disingenuous. It implies that the TAs do all the work and the teacher has little contact with or impact on the cold. You couldn't be more wrong.

I just love the way teachers are always so aggressively defensive about the amount of work they do.

I have been in a lot of schools. Every single one is different. Every single class is different.

Some teachers are as you describe. Others are not.

I’m afraid ime the vast majority are not. You will have to live with that. Or change my experience of education by changing the majority.

@PickUpAPepper

I’m afraid ime the vast majority are not. You will have to live with that. Or change my experience of education by changing the majority.

But why is your experience more valid than someone else’s? It’s not. It’s all opinion.

@Nivealove

I've read all your posts YANBU and you sound FANTASTIC. Your children are so lucky to have you.

@Mickarooni it’s the stats that don’t lie. Most sn parents in surveys feel let down by care for their children in schools.