Why do we have low expectations of children/adults with disabilities?

[Nivealove]

Thought twice about posting this post. But here you go.

AIBU to have high expectations of my children with disabilities? Had an disagreement with one of the DC's teachers today and she thinks it's acceptable that my 13 year old should still be learning the 2 and the 10x table. 2/3 go to special needs school. When I challenged the head and the teachers, they give me some bullshit about him not being ready and they adapt the curriculum to the child's needs. I've decided to remove me child from that school. If they stay there, they would be left with nothing.

It's the same thing everyday. It's not acceptable for a neurotypical child to not read and write. But it's acceptable if a child with a disability can not read and write. If it wasn't for me and spending ££££££ in tutors/resources and not leaving it to the school, my children would not have learnt to read and write. It- instead would be blame on their disability and not because of their poor (unambitious) teaching practices. I'm not just talking about academics, I'm talking about sports, independent skills and so forth so forth.

My children have been taught by people who see my children as individuals and have high expectations vs people who see my children by their diagnosis and 10/10 my children succeed with people who believe in them and have high expectations.

When I complain to the school, I'm seen as a mother who is in denial and haven't accepted their children's disabilities. I have- as I wouldn't have been ££££££ amount of private therapies.

I've come to realise that society as whole is like this. Rant over.

Surely it depends on the child and their disabilities, my son has severe autism and learning disabilities, non verbal l etc, he uses PECs but he is just not intersted in ACC communication devices maybe he will one day
y but he isnt now, hes very sensory led
It was massively important to us to get him toilet, and we managed it when he was ten.

@Lovesicecreams

I hear you op.

So many parents of kids with SN will agree with what you say. My dd can talk because I didn’t give up on her. I am never going to give up on high expectations for her.

Well good for you, i have never given up on. My son either, but at 11 he still cant talk, if i had one wish it would be that he could but he cant.

Spot on @saltinesandcoffeecups. That facility sounds amazing.

Another eerk of mine is when some people speak to adults/kids with SN like their babies. But that's for another thread.

My view of my children and their capabilities have changed. It all started (and this is not a boast) when my then non verbal 3 year old was learning to toilet train. He was very high needs, non verbal and had limited understanding (or so I thought)-he was showing me tell tale signs that he was ready to toilet train (taking off his nappies) but I don't know if they were a sign, I just wanted to stop buying DC pampers as they were so expensive.

Anywhoo, I thought to myself, how can I teach a non verbal child how to toilet train. I thought that he needed to speak to learn. I didn't think he was ready or was able to do it. But then I thought-heck-why not, let me teach him and if it doesn't work it just means his not ready yet. So I went to the library and bought the famous book by the author (forgot her name) 'how to teach your child how to toilet train". At this point, I'm still thinking he wouldn't learn. But at the end of the gruelling toilet training, it did not take my DC five days to toilet train - it took him three weeks. He did not talk, but he knew when to go to the toilet and would trot himself independently when he needed to go. From then on my perception of DC and his disability changed, I realised with the right tools, support, motivation, he could achieve his own maximum potential.

I think you are being quite offensive actually Op, im glad "your" methods have worked for your child, but all children including those with disabilities are individuals and what works for one maynot work for another
I want the best for my child too but im also realistic in his limitations.

However, a person who cannot walk can learn to be independent, a bit small steps, with assistive help, modifications, he/she can learn how to pull off their jumper using their teeth, tools etc etc.

No I'm sorry but some people can learn to do those things. Some cannot. My cousin will never be independent.

It sounds as if your dcs school isn't helping them reach their own personal potential. And that's awful and not on and I can totally understand why you want to change schools. But you're coming across as "well my dc can learn it because I've put the effort in" which makes it sound as if other parents (like my amazing Auntie who has spent her life caring for her DD) just haven't tried hard enough. And I sure that's not actually how you mean it. But that's how it comes across.

@Nivealove I've seen parents with SEN kids go both ways - one mother kept telling me her child would never walk, never talk, and I kept saying but she does communicate and can make sounds, I really do think she will talk as soon as she can channel that sound into words she'll be away.

Well by her 5th birthday she was talking non stop and walking.

@x2boys

I think you are being sensitive. You taught your son how to toilet train. That is a big achievement. No way am I instituting that X methods work for DC and therefore other parents haven't tried enough. There are some people who would look at your son and no way would they have kept the motivation to teach your DS how to toilet train. They would have left him. That's the point.

@CiaoForNiao

However, a person who cannot walk can learn to be independent, a bit small steps, with assistive help, modifications, he/she can learn how to pull off their jumper using their teeth, tools etc etc.

No I'm sorry but some people can learn to do those things. Some cannot. My cousin will never be independent.

It sounds as if your dcs school isn't helping them reach their own personal potential. And that's awful and not on and I can totally understand why you want to change schools. But you're coming across as "well my dc can learn it because I've put the effort in" which makes it sound as if other parents (like my amazing Auntie who has spent her life caring for her DD) just haven't tried hard enough. And I sure that's not actually how you mean it. But that's how it comes across.

At least your cousin's mum tried. Most people (that work with children/adults with disabilities) do not try. That is my whole point. They see the disability X and it ends there.

How do you know they don't try? What a bizarre statement to make. I don't know anyone who has just seen the disability and not tried.

Be grateful your children don’t have a major SEN and their literacy and attainment can be fixed by throwing money at it. Be really grateful.

At least your cousin's mum tried. Most people (that work with children/adults with disabilities) do not try. That is my whole point. They see the disability X and it ends there.

How much experience do you have of people who work with children/adults with SEN to claim most don't try or have very low expectations of them?

@Ozanj

Be grateful your children don’t have a major SEN and their literacy and attainment can be fixed by throwing money at it. Be really grateful.

I find that offensive. My DC disabilities has and will have a major impact on their lives forever.

@CiaoForNiao

How do you know they don't try? What a bizarre statement to make. I don't know anyone who has just seen the disability and not tried.

because the child with the disability often has to prove X to do Y. As an example, the child has to talk before he/she can learn how to read. It is a huge problem in society.

Yeah, makes me think of the educational psychologist who kept saying (several years in a row) that the next stage of maths would be too hard for my son. She was wrong every time. I mean, sure: he’s had some significant challenges. But he’s incredibly good at maths.

Sounds like you've come across some shit "professionals" and decided that means they are all shit.
I don't know anyone who has insisted a non verbal child learns to speak before they learn to read. (And my experience spans my whole lifetime and a variety of disabilities and settings)

Actually I do know a couple of people where the adults in their lives gave up on them and told them they weren't clever enough to learn anything. Both were in their 80s. These days they'd be diagnosed with some of LD and given extra help. Not so much in the 30s/40s.

@x2boys

I think you are being quite offensive actually Op, im glad "your" methods have worked for your child, but all children including those with disabilities are individuals and what works for one maynot work for another I want the best for my child too but im also realistic in his limitations.

This.

You seem to be lumping together "people with SEND" whereas there is a massive range of type of need, of severity of need and of combination of needs.
I'm pleased for you that your input has enabled your dc to reach what you perceive as important goals, but the implication that others haven't / aren't able to because of low expectations is pretty offensive to so many parents, teachers, therapists and others who work with children with additional needs.

Just wading in as a Teacher of the Deaf. I have high expectations of all my pupils. Some of them cannot talk (profoundly deaf) yet they can read. They just learn through sight words rather than using a phonics system. My intervention are designed to make sure each child will, hopefully, leave primary with the ability to read and write to the best of their ability and with useful Maths skills like written and mental methods for the four operations, money handling etc.

And hopefully with an awareness and some facts about the wider curriculum. Although they have large gaps in knowledge due to delayed language acquisition and lack of incidental learning, so even just teaching them something like what steam is can take a whole load of time.

The entire SEN team I work with in my county are incredibly dedicated to helping children achieve their best. I don't think it's fair, OP, to say that "Most people (that work with children/adults with disabilities) do not try." You just mean some in your experience haven't tried.

It's a difficult one. I've seen teachers who seem to be quite content to shove children into categories of low achievement - my ds was so left in ks1. It took me 6 weeks over a summer holiday to get the beginning principles of adding and subtraction in that they had failed to do in 3 years and I won't forgive that. On the other hand there is so much low motivation in schools now. Even in special schools, best practice does not seem to get shared about, and everyone I know is fed up of high demands and low pay in a time of high living costs, combined with low staffing levels and lack of essential equipment.

@x2boys I always think it’s sad when sn parents kick each other.

You must have missed my post immediately after the post you quoted where I noted one dc in my family is non verbal.

You say “ It was massively important to us to get him toilet, and we managed it when he was ten.”

That’s an amazing achievement and you are absolutely right to celebrate that, even if some kids - like a dc in my own family in fact - will never be capable of that.

I was told my dc might never talk and I was determined to keep trying to see what her potential was. I’m proud we kept going. There are many other skills she hasn’t been able to learn but we will keep on trying to help her as best we can.

@ToD101 with respect though there seem to be a lot of settings where what the op says is true. My dc have been in three placements and in none have they had good support. The picture is very mixed.

Surly it depends on the child. If the school is shoehorn ING the child rather than tailoring education to their ability, then you have a genuine problem.

@Kite22

I think you've missed my point entirely. But from my own experience, it is so difficult to find someone who believes in your child. I will always stand by that.

I know what you mean. I would get irritated that the school was doing the same thing for months on end and not trying to progress. I would tell them what my son was doing at home and then get told months or years later that he was now doing the same thing at school, but they would take the credit and act like it was a new development.

And both of my boys are autistic. One highly intelligent - reading never an issue due to hyperlexia. He has some real limitations all the same. The other has taught himself to read (no one else would ever achieve it) but has severe learning difficulties and everything is disordered in his presentation and understanding. He is in specialist provision and in many ways the most severely affected young person that his (experienced) teacher has worked with.

I haven't read the responses so I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself but I agree with this 1000000%. DD13 did nothing through primary school. All my worries were ignored and we were told she's just shy and not that bright (not those exact words but you get the drift). I ended up getting private diagnosis and an EHCP. Absolutely nothing changes except for the fact that she couldn't possibly now be expected to do well in SATS given her diagnosis. Did anything from the EP report actually get put into place? No.
It's insanely frustrating and I have nothing else but empathy for you.
The only thing that made a difference to us was sending her to one of those super strict secondary schools. They do not give a crap and expect just as much from her as anyone else. They make allowances when needed but most of the time they don't. Thankfully this has never bothered us as she has flourished with lots of traditional rote learning and the likes. People on here hate that stuff but it bloody works. I'm sure their approach is awful for some SEN kids but it's meant my DD has finally had expectations set, caught up and is doing age appropriate work.

Anyway I feel for you and I understand completely.