Why do we have low expectations of children/adults with disabilities?

[Nivealove]

Thought twice about posting this post. But here you go.

AIBU to have high expectations of my children with disabilities? Had an disagreement with one of the DC's teachers today and she thinks it's acceptable that my 13 year old should still be learning the 2 and the 10x table. 2/3 go to special needs school. When I challenged the head and the teachers, they give me some bullshit about him not being ready and they adapt the curriculum to the child's needs. I've decided to remove me child from that school. If they stay there, they would be left with nothing.

It's the same thing everyday. It's not acceptable for a neurotypical child to not read and write. But it's acceptable if a child with a disability can not read and write. If it wasn't for me and spending ££££££ in tutors/resources and not leaving it to the school, my children would not have learnt to read and write. It- instead would be blame on their disability and not because of their poor (unambitious) teaching practices. I'm not just talking about academics, I'm talking about sports, independent skills and so forth so forth.

My children have been taught by people who see my children as individuals and have high expectations vs people who see my children by their diagnosis and 10/10 my children succeed with people who believe in them and have high expectations.

When I complain to the school, I'm seen as a mother who is in denial and haven't accepted their children's disabilities. I have- as I wouldn't have been ££££££ amount of private therapies.

I've come to realise that society as whole is like this. Rant over.

However, I stand by my point that most professionals-and I'm including teachers in this brackets, and even society (definitely) have low expectations of children/adults with disabilities. That is the reason why a huge amount of parents are going the SEN Tribunal Appeal Process.

No, most parents go to tribunal because their child's needs are not even being recognised or catered for, or if they do have an EHCP, it's full of meaningless jargonese and guarantees no real help or support.

I agree with you OP. I’ve worked with people who have very low expectations of the children with SEND, whom they work with.
Anyone with children with additional needs and hasn’t experienced similar to you is very likely the exception, not the norm.

@PickAChew

However, I stand by my point that most professionals-and I'm including teachers in this brackets, and even society (definitely) have low expectations of children/adults with disabilities. That is the reason why a huge amount of parents are going the SEN Tribunal Appeal Process.

No, most parents go to tribunal because their child's needs are not even being recognised or catered for, or if they do have an EHCP, it's full of meaningless jargonese and guarantees no real help or support.

This all boils down to expectations one way or another.

Why should a child with a severe speech and language disorder only be entitled to 3 termly sessions with a Speech and Language Therapist?

Why should a child with significant motor, sensory processing difficulties only require 4 termly OT sessions with an OT and maybe (if they are lucky) be carried out by a TA who often do not have the experience.

SEN funding (let alone education as a whole) is greatly ridiculous and hugely underfunded. But children/adults with SEN are the ones who suffer the most. It's because society deemed these children/adults as the lowest of the low. I am so happy that some if the posters have had great experience with other professionals- but for myself and my children, as well as other parents and working in health care and education establishments, they have low expectations and low achievements of these children. I used to work in one school where a child with PMLD was bored out of her mind, all she would do was sit for the whole day and watch Teletubbies (something she was clearly not interested in) I went over to her, and played with many activities with her, one of the TA's , at the school who worked for many years and has extensive Sen experience, stopped me and told me to stop, I asked her why? She said "well what do you expect with these children? We don't have time to sit and play we need to do other things".

If we had left my son to the services of the NHS and the LEA he would be non verbal. Instead he can talk enough to make his needs clear, interact with his peers in a limited way, he can read to decode (not for pleasure) and understand what the events of the day are going to be.

At his first SEN school the speech therapist couldn’t get his attention in order to teach him anything, he completely blanked her. She saw that as his failure, not hers, and wouldn’t even walk ten paces across a room in order to learn from his ABA therapist who was able to motivate and enthuse him into active participation.

It is the people like that who I resent for having no aspirations for my son. His current official speech therapist clearly didn’t believe me when I told him of the progress my son is making post his folinate treatment, although he was delighted when I videoed him evidence. DS is in mainstream school now with brilliant teachers who believe in him and will encourage and motivate and don’t write him off.

@Nivealove

I'm not judging anyone :S and certainly not judging parents. I judge the professionals.

Reading and writing is one example. It also comes down to life skills, communication etc. The list is endless. Our children may have different needs but please remember that us, SEN parents are going through the same journey.

You posts don’t come across as judging imo

YABU disabled children are assessed like other children and have curriculum tailored to them. Why set a child up to fail every day?

My son is disabled, he was too academic for special school but his disabilities couldn’t be met by mainstream.
He’s now at a mainstream with lots of funding and support and doing really well.

Having non academic children isn’t a big deal, you need to let them be who they are.

But it is the assessments that are often (obviously not always) really incorrect. The assessment for my son was way way off.

Your previous post highlights the shortages in support, that’s not due to low expectations though that’s because their sadly just aren’t enough resources to go around.

We have had many professionals who care deeply and are amazing at their jobs. They are also frustrated at fact that time and budget limit what they can do

I believe all children can learn to read and write. A school that has not taught a child had to read and write, even using non conventional methods, is not great in my eyes- as these skills are essential
You must surely realize that this is not true. Not all children can learn to read and write, no matter how much adults 'believe in them.'
All children can learn to achieve their potential, but potential is almost totally dependent on the disability. Some will never learn to walk because of a physical impediment. The school and the teaching can help children to achieve, but it is not helpful to imply that lack of reading skills are down to poor teaching.

@Mymapuddlington

YABU disabled children are assessed like other children and have curriculum tailored to them. Why set a child up to fail every day?

My son is disabled, he was too academic for special school but his disabilities couldn’t be met by mainstream.
He’s now at a mainstream with lots of funding and support and doing really well.

Having non academic children isn’t a big deal, you need to let them be who they are.

Like I said- this is not a debate about academics vs not academics.

I want my children to be competent readers and writers and have useful mathematical skills. Reading and writing is not about academics but it will teach them how to navigate the world, how to read signs, read labels, able to find themselves to destinations- this is all to do to increase their lifeskills. However, this is important for me and is not a reflection of what other parents should strive for with their own children.

I do not accept my 13 year old should be learning about 10x and 2x table, when he already knows and has been learning it at school for the past two years. He should be learning about money skills, time.. it was my fault , I was relying on the school.

@Sirzy

Your previous post highlights the shortages in support, that’s not due to low expectations though that’s because their sadly just aren’t enough resources to go around.

We have had many professionals who care deeply and are amazing at their jobs. They are also frustrated at fact that time and budget limit what they can do

I agree slightly but the government does not appear to care about the education and welfare of children as a whole/ particularly those with SEN and mental health difficulties. Money is being funded elsewhere. We have progressed since the dark ages but we have a long way to go.

I do not accept my 13 year old should be learning about 10x and 2x table, when he already knows and has been learning it at school for the past two years. He should be learning about money skills, time
Are you able to assess that your child already knows the 10 and 2 times tables? Is he able to answer '14' when asked 7x2 or does he need to count it out?
Teaching money skills and time are heavily reliant on recall of tables. Time, for instance, involves recall of the five times table.
The school is correct in not teaching a topic where the basic skills have not yet been mastered.
You said that it was your fault because you counted on the school to teach him. Why not have a try yourself at teaching money skills and time?

Why should a child with a severe speech and language disorder only be entitled to 3 termly sessions with a Speech and Language Therapist?

Why should a child with significant motor, sensory processing difficulties only require 4 termly OT sessions with an OT and maybe (if they are lucky) be carried out by a TA who often do not have the experience.

SEN funding (let alone education as a whole) is greatly ridiculous and hugely underfunded.

I think we can all agree on this.

@Nivealove I'm sorry that you feel that you're dc weren't helped at school but I find your comments about reading and writing really offensive. My ds (12) can't write his school and I have tried everything but he just doesn't have the fine moter skills and never will, he can read and type though does this mean that he was failed by the school and I?
My ds has ASD, ADHD, tourettes, hypermobility, dyslexia and anxiety and yes we gave up trying to teach him to write and learn how to ride a bike amongst many other things, instead we worked around it and taught him to type and use a tricycle. He is now in a DAS unit (special school bolted on to a mainstream high school it's a Scottish thing) they work with him on life skills mainly with some class work in English, maths and loads of ICT, as he's already coding and writing his own computer programs they even have a college tutor come in to work with him on it. Children and adults with disabilities have to learn what their limitations are and if possible how to work around them where they can. This may sound harsh but it's true. I would love for ds to come out of school with highers and advanced Highers but I know that the only qualification that he will leave with is in ICT but that's fine especially as he wants to write computer programs as a job and it's 1 he can do from home on his own terms which is perfect for him.

I do not accept my 13 year old should be learning about 10x and 2x table, when he already knows and has been learning it at school for the past two years. He should be learning about money skills, time

So test him on his times tables. If he knows them solidly then speak to the senco.
My son is nearly 12 and has no grasp on money or time, it seems to be something they learn in primary and then it’s moved on and not thought of again.

A clock and a digital watch. What’s the time? Correct if not right.

Here’s £5 and a calculator, add up what you’re buying from the shop and try to stay in budget.

Read together every night. He reads one sentence and you read the rest of the page. Or you read to him and every so often stop and ask him to read the word.

Unfortunately it’s not up to schools to teach life skills, they have to tick the boxes and do as they’re told. At special schools they’re stuck until the child moves on with their leading themselves. Money, reading, life skills have always been down to the parent in my experience.

@Cabinfever10

I wish you read my other posts. It is completely different when you have tried all efforts- my point is that some people would just see the disability and conclude that they can't /without trying to find ways to modify certain aspects for the them or even try and often they have to prove x to do y.

My ds has ASD, ADHD, tourettes, hypermobility, dyslexia and anxiety and yes we gave up trying to teach him to write and learn how to ride a bike amongst many other things, instead we worked around it and taught him to type and use a tricycle

That's excellent! My point above is that some people would not even try or modify certain aspects.

When I mean write, I'm not asking about the physical aspect of writing as all my three DC struggles. I mean the ability to form, construct and generate ideas and narratives onto paper/computer/assistive tech. Luckily, we found ways to modify this but my point was teachers at school will tell me that DC has to have competent language skills and motor planning, working memory to do all of these- hence they didn't bother. It was all down to my efforts and the private tutors that we sought.

YANBU. My eldest DC has SEN.
They treated him like an idiot for years and years... until he started coming out with some very complex math answers that were correct. (Talking GCSE math questions and he's in primary.) They had no idea he was capable. he's very intelligent just chooses not to say anything if it's not in his interest too. 🤦🏻‍♀️

My ASD dc attends mainstream school with a lot of support from home and additional tutors which her DLA mostly pays for.
However it is the arrogant, self absorbed or disinterested teachers who make like at school very hard for her. Despite an excellent ASD profile at school which is available to all teaching staff she was made to stand outside a class for “ refusing “ to speak to the teacher for 50 minutes. One of the many ongoing issues for her by teachers.
This one point blank refused to apologise to her and me despite HT stating this would happen however the compromise was that they had to attend a NDD awareness training.
I could go on.
My dc attained one Nat 5 which broke my heart at the time but we are finding an alternative route into the higher education path they want to follow.

@Mymapuddlington

I hate having to prove DC's abilities as I don't want to come across a show off and a know it all but it looks like I must- seeing that he won't able to progress forward if I don't prove his capabilities.

You are right, my failure was relying on the school to teach academics, we spent much more time teaching life skills, language, (and reading and writing- as this is essential).

I haven’t read the whole thread because it is likely to have a mixture of responses, but what I will say is that every disability is diffferent, and for some there are institutions who get it wrong, and in others there are, dare I say it, parents who have limited expectations. And I’m not just talking about learning difficulties but physical disabilities as well.

I am visually impaired. My parents never prevented me from doing anything. For my 3rd birthday I apparently said I wanted a bike, and loads of their friends sighed and said how sad it was that I could never have a bike, and my mum’s view was that if I wanted a bike, then why not. So I got a bike, had my stabilisers removed at some point, rode around our street, didn’t do any damage to myself or the neighbours, had roller scates, did damage to myself but nothing anyone else wouldn’t have done.

When I was a baby my mum read an article in a magazine about twins who were blind. These twins were pictured sitting in the middle of a mat, they were hugely overweight, and the article talked about how blind children never crawled because they didn’t have anything to crawl to. Well that is complete bollocks obviously.

At school the blind children who could do the least amount for themselves were the day pupils. These were children who couldn’t cut up their own food, who couldn’t pour a glass of water even in some instances, and who had no sense of mobility. Many of these children are now my age and still living with their parents.

But then on the other side we have organisations like the RNIB who, in at least one of their job adverts, state that “applicants should be aware that there may be blind people on the interview panel.” Actually they may have revised that to visually impaired but the intent is the same. If someone put “applicants should be aware there may be women on the panel, or black people,” there would be national outcry. But for some reason people applying to a charity who deal with visual impairment need to be made aware that they may have to be interviewed by a blind person. I questioned this on one of their FB groups, and was subsequently banned for doing so.

We need to always treat every person as an individual first, rather than as a disabled person first. Only that way can we bring out everyone’s true potential.

PS: I quite fancy a go on an e-scooter. I just need an empty car park and a willing individual….

Yes I agree lots of schools lump all SEN children together in one group and think they can't achieve high grades / any grades.

Went to an open day with my mum to speak to the teachers about my sister with Asperger s. Teachers said she would be put in the lowest sets for everyone to "help her out".

Mum explained that she is academically very advanced, but she struggles with other things- coordination, organisation and social interaction. She should be put in the set that suits her academically.

The teachers just didn't understand and insisted she would be put in the lowest sets.

My sister didn't go to that school - she went to another school who understood about aspergers and went on to achieve 5 A* at A-level, first class degree, first class masters and is currently in 4th year of a phd.

Lowest sets MY ARSE!

Completely agree. As a mum of a child with gifted IQ, with working memory, processing SpLDs plus likely dyspraxia ASD and sensory processing disorder and hypermobility… generally it’s not really an understood thing that you can have a high degree of need with giftedness

In my experience with special school, it’s more like respite for the parent and it’s generally for those with severe learning difficulties.
They’ll assume your children fall into that category. My son isn’t able to attend special school because he doesn’t have the learning difficulties so you will have to have a meeting with them and ask if they can push more academically, you might be told to look at mainstream though.

I think if you'd simply said something about its upsetting when professionals who work with kids with SEND and Disabilities, can't try to help each child to reach their full personal, individual potential, rather than holding them back due to some preconcieved limitations.

Its important that our kids are challenged to see how far they CAN go, rather than writing them off.. but that has to be balaced by being realistic, and finding what works for them.

My DS will NEVER write, he physically can't hold a pencil well enough to form letters because of his severe level of dyspraxia.. but he CAN type. He won't ever be able to ride a bike, but he can ride a trike...etc

Most people (that work with children/adults with disabilities) do not try. That is my whole point. They see the disability X and it ends there.

That's more offensive than some of your insensitive posts.

Most people who work with those with disabilities do it because they care and genuinely want the best for their young people and service users. It's a low paid and under valued job.

Some schools of course get it wrong - or the odd teacher in a good school.

Like with life people have different opinions of priority and what matters. You want your child to learn their times tables. Many curriculums in special education wouldn't have this as a target. They will however have many skills that are useful for life. Reading signs, recognising things like taxi, bus stops, toilets etc. Being able to sit, wait their turn, order things and use money. Make meals. To name a few. Teachings ways to communicate, request items etc.

Personally I'd much rather Ms education provided some more useful stuff instead of learning about Romans etc from a certain. All people would benefit better from education around healthy eating, budgeting, job interviews etc than some of the pointless crap their are expected to learn and memorise just for an exam!