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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Would you join a terrorist organisation to avoid splitting up your family?

154 replies

HeartsAndClubs · 07/10/2021 11:22

Rhetorical question obviously.

Islamic State mother Nicole Jack says 'don't sweep us under carpet' www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58814804

This woman is bleating on about how she and her children should be allowed to return to the UK, and says openly that the only reason she joined ISIS was because her husband did and she didn’t want to split up her family.

This wasn’t a teenager who some might argue could have been groomed, this was a mother of 4, a grown woman, who made a conscious choice to put the ISIS ideology before the welfare of her children, and now she feels she deserves sympathy.

Surely if splitting up her family had been the only reason, she would have moved on after his death, rather than marrying another terrorist?

And surely saying that she hasn’t seen a beheading doesn’t mean she doesn’t know that they happen?

I just can’t imagine on what planet someone who is of moral thinking would actually be so desperate to keep their family together that they would join isis to do it.

Obviously she clearly didn’t do it for that reason. Obviously she believes in what ISIS stands for, but thinks she can pull that sympathy card now.

If anything I think the children could be brought back and placed in care here to get them away from her.

OP posts:
PlanDeRaccordement · 07/10/2021 20:43

Pythonista
And even if they bring the children back, they are going to be separate from their mother and put into the system - how well will that work out for them?

No they would not. Their grandmother who is an NHS nurse has already stated they would live with her. They won’t be going into care.

MushMonster · 07/10/2021 20:45

I have read a bit more of the thread, I have to say I do jot know about their story, but she is refusing for her children been brought back to live with their grandmother in UK?
Seriously, being in a refugee camp, and she is refusing to send her children back? How selfish can one person be?

Pythonista · 07/10/2021 20:46

@PlanDeRaccordement

Pythonista And even if they bring the children back, they are going to be separate from their mother and put into the system - how well will that work out for them?

No they would not. Their grandmother who is an NHS nurse has already stated they would live with her. They won’t be going into care.

And keeping them in the family is great but Even if she is imprisoned, she then will get out at some point and have access to the children.

She married TWO terrorists FFS

PlanDeRaccordement · 07/10/2021 20:47

@MajorCarolDanvers

A grown woman is just as likely to be a victim of grooming as a teenager.
The “i was a victim” bollocks didnt work for the female Nazi concentration camp guards, so shouldn’t work for a female ISIS member either.
PinkSparklyPussyCat · 07/10/2021 20:49

She married TWO terrorists FFS

If I was feeling generous I might think the first was unfortunate but two? Does she really think people are stupid enough to believe her poor me act?

SammyScrounge · 07/10/2021 20:49

a mother I understand that but also as a mother if the only way I could get my kids out of that place was if I stayed there I would like to think I’d send them on their way. They didn’t choose this. One was literally baby when she was taken over there and the others weren’t much older.a mother I understand that but also as a mother if the only way I could get my kids out of that place was if I stayed there I would like to think I’d send them on their way. They didn’t choose this. One was literally baby when she was taken over there and the others weren’t much older.

Mother of the Year, isn't she? One child killed on an air raid, yet she won:t let the others car to the UK

MushMonster · 07/10/2021 20:51

@beastlyslumber

I do see your point OP but you only have to look at some of the posts on here to see women who stick by their husbands even when they are being abused, their kids are being abused, and a hundred MNers are telling them to LTB and offering advice.

I don't know if it applies in this case, but it's really not that hard to believe that a woman would join a terrorist organisation because her husband wanted her to.

Even if it is the case, I think she has to bear responsibility for what she decided to do. Same as a woman who stays with a man who's abusing her children has to take responsibility for that. You can have empathy where it's warranted but it shouldn't override the demand for justice.

I can see this happening in an abusive situation, as you say, very similar to what happens in DV cases. Most likely some DV and abuse did happen in this family! She needs to free her children from this. Who un their healthy mind would keep their children in a refugee camp instead of sending them back to their grandmother to live comfortably and have access to an education and safe upbringing? It is madness!
SammyScrounge · 07/10/2021 20:52

Without her
She,,'s using her own kids as bargaining chips.

Biscoffee · 07/10/2021 20:56

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

She married TWO terrorists FFS

If I was feeling generous I might think the first was unfortunate but two? Does she really think people are stupid enough to believe her poor me act?

She did what was expected of her as a widow and it just so happens that due to her geography and what was going on where she was she had little/next to no choice as to who she married
PlanDeRaccordement · 07/10/2021 20:57

@MushMonster

I have read a bit more of the thread, I have to say I do jot know about their story, but she is refusing for her children been brought back to live with their grandmother in UK? Seriously, being in a refugee camp, and she is refusing to send her children back? How selfish can one person be?
Yes. The BBC article reported “Britain has said it is willing to repatriate orphans and unaccompanied children.”

“Ms Jack, who has British and Trinidadian nationality, says she does not know if her citizenship has been removed. But she insists she is not prepared to allow her children to return to Britain without her. “I know for sure if my kids are separated from me they will not be in a stable situation, because we are a unit."

“Thousands of miles away in London, the children's grandmother, hospital nurse Charleen Jack Henry, says the children should be allowed to return.”

At least one other British ISIS woman I know of has had her children repatriated back to the UK. Nora Camali for example, allowed this. She was sentenced to life in prison by an Iraqi court while her 8yr old daughter was repatriated back to UK to live with relatives.

Bloodypunkrockers · 07/10/2021 20:57

@Fatya

I'm gobsmacked how many posters would gleefully leave the children, who are British Citizens, in a Syrian refugee camp because of the actions of their parents.

Probably the sorts who'd join a white-'ISIS' in a heartbeat.

What exactly does your last sentence mean?
EveryFlightBeginsWithAFall · 07/10/2021 21:00

I doubt she had any choice about the second marriage but either way the childten agoukd be tsken frim her and brought back her to their grandmother. Really she should come back too and go to prison, syria have enough problems without dealing with ours

Fatya · 07/10/2021 21:02

Rather than insulting anyone who thinks different tl you, how about explaining what should be done? Because they either continue to live with their batshit mother and be further indoctrinated or they are separated from her and go into care
Sorry, but when someone explicitly states that they have zero sympathy for the children then there is no constructive discussion to be had about what should or shouldn't happen.

Do I really need to debate that, if nothing else, these children deserve sympathy?

Fatya · 07/10/2021 21:03

What exactly does your last sentence mean?
That I suspect someone who cant muster an ounce of sympathy for the children in this situation is likely a white supremacist.

Original poster
HeartsAndClubs · 07/10/2021 21:03

As for racist - I haven't seen a photo of the family so my opinion is based purely on the fact she pissed off and joined ISIS... I read the story on the BBC and it instantly struck me that she has a very British white-sounding name. I haven’t seen pictures of her but from her name I would assume she’s white.

As for the rest who think she was groomed/deserves sympathy etc etc, how much sympathy do you have with the Manchester bomber? Or the 9/11 or 7/7 terrorists? Do you think those were victims as well? Or can you only be a victim if you’re a woman?

The woman seemingly doesn’t give a shit about her children. She took them to join a terrorist organisation, one of them was killed, so she knows full well what could happen to them, and now she’s refusing for them to come back without her. The woman is a terrible mother and she deserves never to see her children again.

As for saying that the children won’t have a good outcome in the care system, do you hold off reporting abuse to social services because you think those children shouldn’t go into care as opposed to being abused?

Taking 3 girls to a country where they will be force married to terrorists is abuse. It’s no different to physically harming your own child.

OP posts:
KingsleyShacklebolt · 07/10/2021 21:05

She has been told that her girls can come back to the UK. She can't. She would rather keep her girls living in squalor in a Syrian refugee camp than send them back to the UK and stay there herself to try to sort it out. She is clearly not putting her daughters first.

Her mother was interviewed earlier on TV and has said she would take the girls.

Pythonista · 07/10/2021 21:08

@Fatya

What exactly does your last sentence mean? That I suspect someone who cant muster an ounce of sympathy for the children in this situation is likely a white supremacist.
How do you know what colour other posters are? Sounding a tad racist yourself there.
Pythonista · 07/10/2021 21:11

It's about someone who fucked off with her husband and joined ISIS, then she married another terrorist. She doesn't give a shit about her children to the extent she is using them to blackmail her way back.

So much for not negotiating with terrorists

Fatya · 07/10/2021 21:16

How do you know what colour other posters are? Sounding a tad racist yourself there.
Racist against whom?

Biancadelrioisback · 07/10/2021 21:18

@Pythonista absolutely not, where did I say that? She is our responsibility, she should be here and facing trial for her crimes.

Pythonista · 07/10/2021 21:19

Take your pick Given that you said you thought that a lot of posters were white supremacists. I'm sure any people of colour who don't show the appropriate level of sympathy for the children will be a little offended.

Biancadelrioisback · 07/10/2021 21:20

@PlanDeRaccordement

That last thing her kids need are to be forceably removed from their mother when she has been the only constant in their lives for so long.

She’s a terrorist that took her children into a known war zone to live under a barbaric and misogynistic culture. She is currently holding her children hostage, to try and get back to UK. She is an unfit mother in my opinion and the children would be far better off without her.

Yes. She is a terrorist, so she should be tried over here and live with the consequences of being a British citizen who commited a crime. Leaving her behind is only going to fire her children up to fight and hate us.
MushMonster · 07/10/2021 21:21

Fatya, have you spotted any post saying that they do not want the children back in UK?
Because I have not. Many are saying indeed that she should send them back, as they are allowed to come back and their grandmother is willing to care for them.

All this ISIS thing is so weird! Impossible to understand why anyone from UK will follow them. Why would the join in and go over there? Why would they kill and be so horrible to others? And then this aftermath, with children been treated this way, and their mothers unable to see any of this.
It is unreal.
A lot of psychology manipulation gone into this, the extention of it!
I really really think that they should take all the chidren out of this now, before it affects them any further. Just take them away from thwse refugee camps. They have not chosen this shit, or done anything wrong to anyone.
And deal with the adults as per their crimes and degrees of dellusion, case by case, after that.
A criminal or too mentally ill person does loose custody of their children while tgey are sentenced/ unwell, and it should apply to these poor children.

Pythonista · 07/10/2021 21:21

White supremacists
Joining a white ISIS

Equals the assumption that everyone who dares disagree with you is white

Stompythedinosaur · 07/10/2021 21:24

I think it is fair to say that a mother who isn't able to resist their husband's wish to take the family to a dangerous war zone is probably not in the same mental space as I have the luck to be.

When I see a mother who isn't able to resist their partner to keep their dc safe, I generally assume their life experience includes abuse and trauma.

It's massively arrogant for those of us who have had better life experiences to assume the reason we can make good choices is because we are better people. We probably aren't, just luckier.

I feel sorry for these women mostly. I think our government should at the least allow the dc to return to live with their grandparents.