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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Would you join a terrorist organisation to avoid splitting up your family?

154 replies

HeartsAndClubs · 07/10/2021 11:22

Rhetorical question obviously.

Islamic State mother Nicole Jack says 'don't sweep us under carpet' www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58814804

This woman is bleating on about how she and her children should be allowed to return to the UK, and says openly that the only reason she joined ISIS was because her husband did and she didn’t want to split up her family.

This wasn’t a teenager who some might argue could have been groomed, this was a mother of 4, a grown woman, who made a conscious choice to put the ISIS ideology before the welfare of her children, and now she feels she deserves sympathy.

Surely if splitting up her family had been the only reason, she would have moved on after his death, rather than marrying another terrorist?

And surely saying that she hasn’t seen a beheading doesn’t mean she doesn’t know that they happen?

I just can’t imagine on what planet someone who is of moral thinking would actually be so desperate to keep their family together that they would join isis to do it.

Obviously she clearly didn’t do it for that reason. Obviously she believes in what ISIS stands for, but thinks she can pull that sympathy card now.

If anything I think the children could be brought back and placed in care here to get them away from her.

OP posts:
Farwest · 07/10/2021 14:18

Both the mother and children are British - the children possibly exclusively so. They should be brought back to the UK and the mother can be charged and tried. The children can be placed with family or in care. Those children have every right to live and be educated in the UK.

Queenoftheashes · 07/10/2021 14:21

I like to think I wouldn’t have gone but who knows how she thinks. I listened to a very interesting Red Handed podcast on shamima bagum which talks about how women are tempted to join IS. Also points out that leaving them out there just opens us up to more terrorism as we can’t keep track id dangerous people.

lifecoachingandotherbollocks · 07/10/2021 14:22

Shes made her bed.

Pythonista · 07/10/2021 14:24

She and her children should be left there. She made her choice for herself and her children - she has a right to do this as a parent but not to expect everyone to pick up the pieces afterwards.

lifecoachingandotherbollocks · 07/10/2021 14:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn as it quotes a deleted post.

Original poster
HeartsAndClubs · 07/10/2021 14:34

But let’s be honest. She’s not saying that she wants to come back so she can face trial here, she wants the government to just let her back into the country to slot back into her previous life.

And nope, I don’t buy the “maybe she was abused,” line. Maybe she was, but if she was posting here saying that her husband was threatening to take the kids so she felt she had no choice but to join ISIS she would get very little sympathy and be told that she was responsible for what happened to her children.

OP posts:
onlychildhamster · 07/10/2021 14:35

I can imagine a situation where she might feel like she had no choice- even in the UK, she was probably from a very conservative family and raised in a different way from the rest of us and where men have a lot of power. She might have genuinely believed that he would take her children from her, and every mother would follow where her children go. Also the re-marriage was probably arranged by the IS state.

I like to believe that if I was her, I would plot a way to escape from my crazy ISIS loving husband and take my 4 children with me rather than go to IS but maybe I wouldn't be so brave if I was raised in a strict conservative family where I was taught to always obey men. Many strong and brave women find it hard to escape abusive situations; thats why we have support threads for them on mumsnet and posters always provide lots of advice on 'how to get their ducks in a row'.

But that doesn't mean she should be brought back; if you bring her back you would have to bring the rest back too. Its a difficult situation.

Sceptre86 · 07/10/2021 14:37

She is an unfit mother who deliberately took her children to a war zone. Her ideology threatens us all in the UK whether you are black, white or brown. I have no sympathy for her but I do for the children. I am not sure what the answer is, who would care for them. Children in care have notoriously poor outcomes so that might not be a good solution. There may be family willing to have them but how can you be sure they wouldn't have similar thoughts? It is hard.

Justcallmebebes · 07/10/2021 14:45

"By split up the family you mean man leaves and I keep the children? Of course I wouldn't, but I don't have the same lives that these women do. Not excusing it at all, but it hard to say what I would do in another women's shoes and one with a life very different to mine".

She was a Christian by birth working in Pizza Hut when she met her first husband and converted to Islam. When he was blown to smithereens she married another Jihadi fighter

Rainbowheart1 · 07/10/2021 14:53

I would do pretty much anything to keep my family together and keep me and the kids with my DH. Joining that group though I would fear would put our kids in danger though, and they come before him in my eyes, so I wouldn’t join to stay with him if it was detrimental to my kids.

Bucanarab · 07/10/2021 14:54

It’s repatriation that’s not in the national interest.

So what?? It's not in the interest of Jordan, or Syria, or Iraq, or wherever they are either. Why should those countries have to deal with the consequences of our meddling and incompetence?

Farwest · 07/10/2021 15:11

She’s not saying that she wants to come back so she can face trial here, she wants the government to just let her back into the country to slot back into her previous life

It's not up to her whether she is arrested and charged. She would be arrested at the airport.

Rosesareyellow · 07/10/2021 15:14

Because raising your children amongst a terrorist organisation is preferable to separating from your deranged terrorist husband??… okie dokie.

Justasecondnow · 07/10/2021 15:15

I understand people not wanting her back, but the attitude here towards the children shocks me. They are innocent and helpless, they should not suffer for the choices of their parents. I understand wanting her to live with her choices, but saying her children should too. On a parenting site as well. Kind of callous.

MissChanandlerBong81 · 07/10/2021 15:18

No, I wouldn’t. But I’m not her.

Hattie765 · 07/10/2021 15:19

Well you've obviously made up your mind to be judge, jury and executioner haven't you? I try not to form opinions on how people act unless I know what journey they've been on to get to where they are.

Pythonista · 07/10/2021 15:20

She chose to take her children into this environment. Her responsibility. Let her bear the guilt if anything happens to them (which I hope it won't). They will be indoctrinated into her way of thinking and no amount of help is going to stop that.

Justasecondnow · 07/10/2021 15:52

Pythonista - so we’re writing off 7 year olds now? As too damaged, too dangerous? 7 year olds?

Don’t we also bear some guilt as a nation that is washing its collective hands of any responsibility towards innocent British children?

MarshmallowSwede · 07/10/2021 16:15

Well she’s an idiot. If my husband said he was running off to join Isis I would help him pack, change the locks and tell my kids he will be away for a long time. I would then be contacting the police to come arrest him on terror charges. And I love my husband! Think he’s amazing… but one thing I will not do for him is be a fool. Not only a fool.. but a damned fool. I certainly would not take my children to a war zone.

Some women will do anything for a man! One of my American friends will say whenever a woman does above and beyond for a man.. “this man must have golden dick”

There’s no way in hell. She’s a terrible parent. You can’t argue that taking your child INTO a war zone is ever good parenting. You would run away from that.

Pythonista · 07/10/2021 16:57

@Justasecondnow

Pythonista - so we’re writing off 7 year olds now? As too damaged, too dangerous? 7 year olds?

Don’t we also bear some guilt as a nation that is washing its collective hands of any responsibility towards innocent British children?

Not necessarily. But she has made her choices for her family, as is her right as a parent. You don't get to piss off and join a terrorist organisation with your children and then expect someone to come along and magically sort them out if it goes tits up.
Skysblue · 07/10/2021 17:12

What a sad story.

I guess from a legal point of view it’s:

  • Either Trinidad or UK withdraw her citizenship;
  • The other country repatriates the whole family;
  • On arrival home the mum gets arrested and imprisoned for membership of a terrorist organisation/treason, and serves her time
  • Children removed permanently from the mother and put into the ‘care’ system and hope that they get adopted together, which seems very unlikely. More likely they’d be shuttled around foster homes then living on a druggie estate without adult help at age 16.

Leaving those girls where they are means they will raped / married off young to terrorists, and also die young.

No winners here :(

Porfre · 07/10/2021 17:17

If I was her I'd make sure my kids were out of that situation even if I couldn't return.

I'm not sure, but I think the kids may be allowed back, but she doesnt want them to go without her. I wouldn't hesitate to get my kids out of that situation even if I was stuck.

Fatya · 07/10/2021 17:23

I'm gobsmacked how many posters would gleefully leave the children, who are British Citizens, in a Syrian refugee camp because of the actions of their parents.

Probably the sorts who'd join a white-'ISIS' in a heartbeat.

CovidCorvid · 07/10/2021 17:34

@gogohm

The children should be brought back and put into a therapeutic foster care situation with lots of extra support, they didn't choose their life. As for her, she needs to be tried for aiding terrorists
This. I’m sure she can be jailed for joining a terrorist organisation and the kids can either be put with non terrorist family members or foster care….either of which have to be better for them than their current situation.
MarshmallowSwede · 07/10/2021 17:39

I’m not British so I can’t really say if this is in your nation’s best interests. It sounds like a bad bet bringing her back. I would say leave her there and bring the children back. Or bring her back and throw her in prison for terror offenses and terminate her parental rights.

All in all.. she’s a terrible mother. Taking your children to a war zone because you’re so desperate to keep a man in your life?
Pathetic!

This wasn’t about “keeping her family together “. She’s a dick panderer of the worst kind. The sort that puts a man’s wishes above the safety of her children.