Infidelity is abusive. AIBU?

[Infidelitydiscussion]

Given that cheating on your spouse/partner often includes gaslighting, causing emotional trauma and putting them at risk of sexually transmitted diseases - personally I would consider cheating to be abusive.

AIBU?

@Infidelitydiscussion

Abuse is not determined by intent, it is determined by impact. When a man chooses to embark on an affair which he knows will cause significant undue suffering to his existing family I fail to see how that can be anything but abusive.

I'm definitely interested in hearing others takes on it though.

Sometimes people as in men OR women embark on an affair to try and avoid causing suffering to their family

@StillWeRise

What people are missing here is that abuse is not simply about the effects/hurt it causes...abuse is motivated by a desire to have power over and control the other person. So having an affair might be abusive if for example the abusive person tells their partner 'see, you're so crap/ugly/useless I just had to go elsewhere for sex but make sure you still do my washing and cook my meals'- that's abuse. A weak and pathetic man who hasn't the integrity to end one relationship before beginning another, and lies as a result- that's not abuse.

This thread is so sexist and anti men! What a narrow minded and old fashioned viewpoint

Yes, it's abusive. It doesn't need to have a legal consequence to be framed as abuse. The damage done to the partner and children is traumatic. It's not like a decision to separate taken equally between two people. It usually involves a callous disregard for the partner and family and the suddenness of it all leaves no time to mentally prepare for the end of a relationship.

What Iwoulddo, is to ensure that men who cheat don't get to also duck proper child/spousal support.

No NRP should be able to duck child support, nothing to do with cheating. Spousal support is something else. The default for all of us is to earn our own way; we may find a different way works better if we are running a household unit with someone else, or just have a personal arrangement, but one doesn't automatically always have a right for the financial side to continue if the relationship breaks down. Women should get their fair share of marital assets, with any loss of earnings accounted for if they were contributing in a non-financial way, but that's not the same as automatically receiving maintenance your whole life.

Division of assets on divorce also shouldn't be punitive. It's just a fair divvying up based on how you both contributed to building the pot.

@Sirzy

I think some of the behaviours that obviously go hand in hand with infidelity are without doubt abusive but I don’t think the act in itself is abusive

I agree. Bad behaviour is not necessarily abuse. By OP's measure, if putting someone at risk of an STD is an example of abuse, then almost any sex is abusive because most people have HPV and can pass it on to others without ever having symptoms. Likewise, if causing emotional distress is abuse, then having any diagreement whatsoever could be called abuse. Or breaking up with someone! I mean... jeez.

Sorry you were cheated on, OP, and I can't comment on whether or not your partner was abusive in any regard, but something can be difficult, rude, unkind, thoughtless, selfish, hurtful, dishonest, etc. without necessarily being abusive.

It certainly can be abusive and my experience of a cheating exh was very much so.
I can’t say all are because there will be a % of cheats who aren’t caught and it is difficult to say abuse has happened if the abusee is unaware of the affair.
My position that all cheats are utter bastards stands though.

@Whatabambam

Yes, it's abusive. It doesn't need to have a legal consequence to be framed as abuse. The damage done to the partner and children is traumatic. It's not like a decision to separate taken equally between two people. It usually involves a callous disregard for the partner and family and the suddenness of it all leaves no time to mentally prepare for the end of a relationship.

Many decisions to separate aren't taken equally. It only takes one person to want to end it. Is that also a callous disregard, if the other partner and kids want you to stay? Does that also cause trauma?

I'm just amazed at how many people think infidelity is the only thing that can cause this kind of pain and upheaval.

Part of the problem is that the two partners may have very different views on adultery.
For example, the husband might view it as a harmless opportunistic leg over, a bit of fun, but no big emotional deal, while his wife sees it as a massive betrayal of her and a reason to end the marriage.
If both parties are financially and emotionally secure and both feel ok to have the odd fling without threatening their marriage, or becoming jealous, then it isn’t a problem at all. But this often is not the case, particularly where the woman is a SAHM and dependent on her husband.
There is also the issue of broken vows. If you have married in church, then you have solemnly sworn to be faithful, in the presence of God. If you had a registry office wedding, you didn’t make any vows at all.

In a marriage though, there's a reasonable assumption that both parties are monogamous. This affects the protective measures each person uses. If one partner is having sex with numerous people, then the other spouse is being put at risk without their knowledge. I think that is abusive, particularly when you read posts where women have had to take their newborn baby for STD testing.

DrSbaitso too often nrp are not legally compelled to pay what it actually costs to support their children and the RP is left with limited capacity to work, due to child care commitments and is left with an emotionally distressed family. If a person is going to cheat then emotional hurt can't really be legislated for but ensuring that financial commitments made in the marriage are adhered to is really important imo, since it would be one less thing for the spouse left behind to worry about.

If he'd just had a shag I don't think it would have had the impact that it did.

The gaslighting, treating me like shit, the psychological damage to the children. 'It's only a platonic friendship', etc, etc, led to a breakdown and PTSD.

So yes, OP, I agree that its abuse.

Babdoc, marriages which don't take place on church aren't 'less' than marriages which do! I'm pretty sure both are signing up to the same deal and not believing in God doesn't lesson the commitment made to the other person.
I'm also pretty sure that opportunistic shaggers are well aware that they are doing wrong/causing harm to their partners. I wonder how those men would feel if their wives were doing the same - I suspect they'd suddenly take a different view of how important it is!

ensuring that financial commitments made in the marriage are adhered to is really important imo, since it would be one less thing for the spouse left behind to worry about.

I absolutely agree, including the point that the system isn't adequate at present. I just don't think infidelity is relevant. The financial commitments/fair division of assets, especially to children, should be upheld no matter what the reason for the split.

For example, the husband might view it as a harmless opportunistic leg over, a bit of fun, but no big emotional deal, while his wife sees it as a massive betrayal of her and a reason to end the marriage.

Men aren’t the only ones who cheat though, would we be as keen to criminalise if we reversed the sexes in your post? If we recognise women often cheat too because this thread reads a bit like “let’s punish those men” without the acknowledgment that women cheat, lie, gaslight etc etc in the context of an affair as much as men do.

This thread is nuts.

Who do people think men have affairs with if not with women who are also having affairs?

Are all women faithful whilst millions of men are all shagging the same goat?

@2boysDad

This thread is nuts.

Who do people think men have affairs with if not with women who are also having affairs?

Are all women faithful whilst millions of men are all shagging the same goat?

The same what?

And actually it's almost refreshing, in a twisted way. Most threads about infidelity comprise lots of posts with a line about how the man is responsible for his marriage and then paragraphs and paragraphs about how the OW is evil, thick, a lizard, has no self esteem, a cheap slut, etc etc etc.

I don’t think everyone who has an affair is an evil, abusive person.

A family member had an affair. They got married young, back when you didn’t really have any other choice. They were never happily married, they met someone else at work and that person turned out to be the love of their life. It’s a sad situation and people got hurt, but they are good people who did a bad thing.

We all like to think we would never cheat, but we are human. There could be health issues in a marriage, loneliness, incompatibility after marrying young. Then an opportunity presents itself, it’s not always black and white.

I think we all want to think we would never cheat, I’m sure I wouldn’t. But I understand why people do.

‘But in many countries emotional abuse has been criminalised as a type of domestic violence, including the U.K.’

Yes, and having an affair isn’t abuse under the legal understanding of what emotional abuse is.

But abusers often use the victim’s relationships as a justification for abuse.

This isnt going to be popular, but no, not always. What if you are with a horrible, abusive partner who puts you down, treats you like rubbish, withoholds sex and affection as punishment and you are just sad and lonely and desperate for love? Or you cheat on a partner who has cheated on you multiple times in the past? My ex DH was exactly as described above, even having an affair when I was in hospital in intensive care after almost dying giving birth to my son. He had at least another 2 affairs after that. When i finally left after 20 years of this, i had an affair first. He found out as i wasnt really careful and declared he was broken hearted. Tough. I will never regret it. Its not always black and white " bad man cheats on lovely wife"

@2boysDad

This thread is nuts.

Who do people think men have affairs with if not with women who are also having affairs?

Are all women faithful whilst millions of men are all shagging the same goat?

Agreed. This thread is so anti men

They will stone you to death under the Taliban and I think that is whether male or female.

" Chapter 3 : PRESCRIBED PUNISHMENT FOR AN ADULTERER AND AN ADULTERESS
Book 17, Number 4191:

'Ubada b. as-Samit reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Receive (teaching) from me, receive (teaching) from me. Allah has ordained a way for those (women). When an unmarried male commits adultery with an unmarried female (they should receive) one hundred lashes and banishment for one year. And in case of married male committing adultery with a married female, they shall receive one hundred lashes and be stoned to death."

www.iium.edu.my/deed/hadith/muslim/017_smt.html

It's a thread about infidelity on a site where almost all users are female and the overwhelming majority are heterosexual. They're mostly going to be about male infidelity because of the demographic. Most of us are bright enough to put it in context.

How does an unmarried male/female commit adultery?

@Jellycatspyjamas

How does an unmarried male/female commit adultery?

Premarital sex is bundled up in there.

Great, let’s look to a regime trying to control sexuality regardless of marriage commitments as an example of criminalising infidelity - that’ll end well.

Infidelity is hurtful, but I don't think it is abuse.

Causing someone emotional pain does not necessarily constitute emotional abuse. Emotional abuse is using emotions like shame to manipulate and control.

Obviously sometimes infidelity happens alongside abuse.